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that you were being paid in cash for the value of the improvements—say, 30s. to £2 per acre — and that you were letting it for thirty years, and at the end of the term you covenanted to pay the lessee the value of all substantial improvements made on it, what would you consider a fair rent to get for it ?—I think that every tenant is entitled to the improvements he makes as a tenant. I may state that there is a farm of Mr. Hurst's which he let to Mr. Peat—not so much broken land as Lysaght's—he let it for Bs. an acre: that is what it was let for. 2359. Improved land?— Yes ; quite improved, with a house and all necessary buildings on it. It is one of the best farms in the Hawera district. 2360. How long did he let it for ?—I think it was for twelve years. 2361. With reference to the fall in prices of stock, you said that at one time a fat bullock would be sold for £10 : can you give me any idea of the date, or about the date ? —About ten years ago— I am speaking from memory. 2362. Was that the time that the " freezing " was started?—No ; I think the prices were low when the " freezing " was started; it was the prices being low that drove us to " freeze." 2363. Was there not a land-mania in consequence of the large prosperity which was thought to be in store for the district on account of the " freezing " ? —We thought it would better our condition, certainly, but I do not think it carried farmers away ; but farmers are sometimes like a flock of sheep—one man buys, another buys, and hence the fictitious values. There was undoubtedly an earth-hunger about ten years ago. 2364. Can you remember the price of a fat bullock sixteen or seventeen years ago?—l remember that prices were very high at that time. I remember the first auction I attended in Hawera —store cows sold at £7 55., calves just w T eaned sold at £4 4s. a head. The same calves now would bring Bs., or perhaps not so much. 2365. Between that and 1880, how did prices go? Did they go up or down?—l think they kept gradually going down year by year, and Ido not know that we have touched bottom yet. We have been waiting for the wave of prosperity to come, but it has not reached us yet. It is, I suppose, because of having no turnips in the district that we cannot hold fat stock. This year we have been obliged to let them fall back to stores. 2366. You made the remark that no doubt things will go up again ?—I hope so : I think so. 2367. If you owned land and wished to let, would you let for thirty years at sor 6 per cent, at present depressed values ?—Yes. I have actually let a farm in this district within the last six weeks for under 5 per cent. An attested copy of the lease will be supplied if required. The terms are : Area, 68 acres; rent, £20 a year for ten years ; the fences to be re-erected by tenant, and half cost stopped out of first year's rent. The capital value is £6 an acre. 2368. Mr. Sinclair.] When the arbitrators were considering the question of improvements on the land, did they include the improvements made by Natives previous to the lease to Europeans ? — I look on Native improvements as rather against the occupier than otherwise, and for this reason : If there is a little bit of grass here and there —a little patch of fern in different places—the fire would not run; and it is very difficult in such cases to get a clean burn off. One would prefer to have it all covered with fern, so that the fire would clear the whole at one sweep. 2369. Then, you do not consider that such improvements as the Natives made had to be considered ?—I do not consider them to be improvements at all. If substantial improvements they would, of course, be considered. 2370. Were not some of these reserves in a good state of grass ?—I do not know. 2371. Did not the arbitrators consider so? —The arbitrators took all the evidence. You must ask them; Ido not know. If they were substantial improvements they would have to be considered. 2372. Still, your leaning is against the Natives? —No, sir, my leaning is not against tho Natives. 2373. Then against Native improvements ? —I have said that Ido not consider them improvements. 2374. Are you friendly to the Natives ?—Yes. 2375. Did you take part in the disturbances about the fencing with the Natives?—l do not remember any disturbances about fencing. I remember about the ploughing. I was appointed captain of the Hustlers on that occasion. 2376. Did you not treat the Natives very roughly ?—No ;on a later occasion I saw a Native knock a European off his horse by a blow from a tent-pole, and I rode the said Native down with my horse. 2377. Did not Mr. York have to take you off the Native ?—No, it is not true. I never in my life behaved roughly to Natives. On the very day you speak of I saved an old Native from being killed. 2378. Mr. Bell] How far is Hurst's land from Normanby ?—lt adjoins the town. A portion of it is town extension. 2379. You say it is not nearly so broken as the other land you referred to ?—No, not so broken as Lysaghts. 2380. With regard to Maori improvements, is the land they use benefited by them ?—When the Maoris cultivate they cultivate until the land will not give them any more ; they then go to another place, and the same thing takes place. 2381. Then, their use of the land impoverishes the land ? —Yes. 2382. They go from piece to piece, exhausting the land?— Yes. 2383. Are the plains covered with high fern 14ft. high?- Over a great part of the Waimate Plains there was good grass. 2384. North of the Waigongoro'.'—Yes; but the greater portion of it was very high fern and tutu.