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18. Mr. Kerr.) You'said " outside " diseases are not prevalent ?—By that I meant diseases that are discernible by the naked eye very easily. 19. How many head of cattle have yon seen with cancer? —That is more than I could tell you. I saw a very bad one about a fortnight ago ; I would not like to be near such a case again, the flavour of it remained in my nostrils for several days. 20. Was that an " inside " cancer? —An inside cancer. 21. Do you mean to say that is very prevalent? —No, I mean to say that tuberculosis and consumption are very prevalent, but cancer is not. I do not think there is more than a fourth per cent, of cattle suffering from that disease at present. 22. What would you say is the percentage of tuberculosis and consumption : 7 per cent. ? —Yes. 23. Mr, Buchanan.] You have mentioned, I think, that, so far as living cattle are concenied, you do not see much sign of disease ?—No ; they are abundantly healthy in appearance. 24. Would it not strike you that is a proof of the disease not affecting the health of the animal itself very much ?—With that I cannot agree : that could never be ; the disease must affect the health; it may not affect the appearance of the animal for the time being, but it must affect it ultimately. 25. Would you. not think, that a bad case of disease would, within twenty-four or forty-eight hours, affect appearance? —No; certainly not. We know well that there are plenty of human beings who suffer from disease and yet look very well. There are very few human beings who have perfectly healthy kidneys; there are a good many who have heart disease, and yet they look very well; there is plenty of people who have diseased livers and look healthy enough, and you would say you could take a lease of their lives, but that is only for the present. 26. Do you not realise the enormous difference there is between heart disease, which means structural change which does not prevent the usual functions being performed, and other diseases; whereas a serious disease of the kidneys, for instance, must affect the daily health?— Yes; and so with cattle; serious consumption will cause that beast to fall off. A sheep suffering from consumption is not fat; another may be very fat when killed. But it must affect them in the course of three or four years—it might be four years, that is to say, before the sheep would die. But they are killed within two or three years. 27. In a sheep, you say, the disease would take three or four years to show itself: would it not show itself directly ?—No; it is only in the last stages that the appearance is very much affected, either in man or beast. 28. You have mentioned tuberculosis, consumption, and pleurisy. Now, between tuberculosis and consumption, how would you define the difference ?—According to the appearance of the tissues ; the colour and the tissues are gone. The appearance of the tissues are, in lung diseases, very different from what they are in other diseases. I could show it to you, it is impossible to define it; it is very easily discernible. If I thought I was to be so closely examined upon this subject I would have prepared myself. 29. I wish to free your mind from the notion that I am pursuing anything in the nature of a cross-examination of your evidence. I only want to get before the Committee what you have in your mind on the subject: tako tuberculosis, what are the usual appearances which you call tuberculosis, say, as to the outward appearances first?—-While cattle are healthy in appearance I should not like to say ; but the inward appearances are plain and obvious. Sometimes these appearances are manifested through the whole frame of the animal, even from the throat downwards. They are seen; you can see them even in the blood. 30. Have you dissected the throat and lungs yourself ?—The men do; I stand there and see it done. 31. How does tuberculosis show itself?—l do not understand exactly how it shows itself. 32. Hon. Mr. Pharazyn.] Is it in the colour, in alteration of structure, and so on ?—You know that in tuberculosis there are small pimples. 33. Mr. Buchanan.] What is the appearance inside the pimples when cut open?— Very red. 34. Hard or soft ? —Hard. They often present themselves with consumption : sometimes you see a swelling and mucous, but in consumption the tissues of the lungs are destroyed. 35. As to pleurisy, what are the appearances there ? —Very often the lungs become like leather; sometimes it becomes green ; sometimes of the colour of the white of an egg, attached to the ribs ; there are many differences of appearance. 36. What would be the proportion of pleurisy as compared with other diseases?—-There is more pleurisy than anything else. I should say there is quite 4 per cent, of pleurisy in sheep. 37. In cattle ?—ln cattle it is not so great. There is another thing I want to call your attention to —namely, that there is not so much disease in horned cattle as in sheep. The disease in sheep is far greater than in horned cattle. 38. What is the percentage of disease in horned cattle ?—The disease would not be 4 per cent. in horned cattle; I have been giving the general average on sheep and cattle. 39. What would you estimate the pleurisy cases at?— Not more than 1 per cent. There are many diseases arising from bruises, which Ido not consider, f notice principally diseases of the lungs, liver, and kidneys. 40. Do the above percentages include all cases, even where there may be only little disease ?— Yes, they include all cases ; where there may be only a little disease we are not permitted to partake of the meat as food. 41. Hon. Mr. Pharazyn.] In fact, any departure from normal health is a state of disease?— Yes. 42. Mr. Buchanan.] We know that in numerous cases, after inflammation has subsided and the animal has recovered altogether, there sometimes remain adhesion of lungs and membranes, but the

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