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Mr. Bees .• We cannot interfere with the Government any more than we can with private parties. We can only recommend Parliament what to do, and Ave can state that there are complaints made that the Government have wrongly included land in their surveys. Wiki Moehana: I consent to the Native Land Court adjudicating upon our lands. Ido not wish the Maori Committee to do it. Trouble comes from the Native Land Court upon the owners of the land, and trouble conies from the Native Committees upon the owners of the land; the troubles are both the same. I like the Court of the Government because it gives out the portions for this person and for that person. The Maori Court would not be clear in saying what portions belong to each person. That is why I do not like the Maori Committee. That is all I need say about the Courts. Now, Avith regard to the laws of the Government in relation to the Native Land Court : a great objection that I see in connection with the Native Land Court is in its demanding payments from the people avlio have cases before it. A second objection is the compulsory payment of rates upon land that the Government surveys. A third objection is to demanding a Native duty upon leases. That is all I wish to make known to the Commissioners. Hoterene Maihi Kawiti : I wish to explain to the Commissioners my views with regard to their coming here and with regard to the troubles that have beset us through the action of the Government in relation to our lands—both lands that have already been surveyed and lands that are still remaining in their Maori state. I shall first speak about lands that have already been surveyed. Applications are sent in to have the claims adjudicated. A time is fixed for the investigation to take place, and it is held that after this investigation does take place no person shall make any further application in regard to that land. I have heard now that these cases can be reopened, and the land given to some other person. That is all I have to say with regard to lands that have been surveyed. Now, Avith regard to lands that are in their original state, I myself and a great portion of the Ngapuhi do not wish our lands that are not through the Court to be surveyed. Our lands near KaAvakawa are not through the Court. Ido not wish any surveys to take place there. We Avant the troubles that exist between us with regard to our lands to be settled by our Native Committees. ' Mr. Mackay : Who wishes to survey the lands ? —The last speaker is one who Avishes to survey the lands. The boundaries of our lands that are not through the Court we decided many years ago, and I have a note of them in my book. Ngatitini is the hapu. Is it not necessary for you to have your land surveyed before going to Court ?—I am stating Avhat my own ideas are upon this subject. What is the question? Hoav can you expect to get your iands put through the Native Land Court without surveys ?— Our desire is that the land should not be surveyed or dealt with by the Native Land Court. Hoav can you expect to get a title to it unless it is dealt with by some Court ?—According to our Native way of holding land we have no trouble, but with the Native Land Court there is a lot of trouble. Would you approve of a system by which the titles to Native land would be obtained through the action of a Native Committee settling the boundaries and working with a Government officer?— The Native Committee could determine the boundaries. With regard to the Government officer and the Committee, I could not give an answer to that hoav ; that will be for the whole of the Ngapuhi to reply to. The man who is persistent in trying to have our lands surveyed is the last person who spoke to the Commissioners, and he is a very objectionable person altogether. At the time Marsh Brown Avas alive this person made application to the Government to have the survey made. Marsh BroAvn wrote back to the Government requesting that no surveyor should be sent. Mr. Ballance was the Minister at the time. The Government aftefwards sought to have the question settled by arbitration, and people were sent up by the Government who investigated the claim of the person to whom lam referring. The decision of that Court, or inquiry, was altogether against him. He Avas defeated there. Who composed this Court? —Henry Clarke and two Native Assessors. Kauere was one of these, and Rehutai was the other. The decision was given against that person, and I have a copy of the judgment. I wish to say to the Commissioners that with regard to our land that is not through the Court we have already completed a covenant. This is the book Avhich contains it. [Book produced containing printed agreement entered into by a number of Maoris with regard to their land.] The purport of that is that we do not wish to have any surveys. That is to remain a permanent law for the future. No portions of that land are to be sold. Those are some of the terms of the covenant. We are willing to allow prospecting for coal, manganese, or other minerals to take place over the land referred to in the covenant. There is a great deal of coal in it. Mr. Bees : Here are 267 names for one block. If they want to lease portions of that block, these 267 can never sign one deed. Some of them are children, and unless everybody signs a European would have no right to go there prospecting for coal or anything else. And unless the European leased from them a certain portion, Avhich was surveyed, he could not do anything. If the Natives keep the land locked up the next thing that will come along will be a tax that will be put on the land—that is, if they do nothing with it. Hoav are they going to pay the tax ? Then, the next thing that will happen is that somebody outside the list of owners altogether, like the man aalio spoke some time ago, will say, " That land belongs to me ; I will take it to the Native Land Court." He and his friends will get up some story, and they will get put in a list of owners. What this Commission wants to do is this: Taking for illustration this block of land, in which there are 267 owners, to let them pick out the wisest men among themselves to cut out what portions they want for themselves, and then to act with a Government officer and the whole people in dealing with the rest of the land which they do not want to utilise. Even then it must be decided, either by common consent of all the Maoris owning land there or else by the verdict of some Court, that these 267 are the owners. If all the Natives agree to this, it could then be settled by the Maori Committee. On the other hand, if the Maori Committee and all the Maoris