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here, desire that that land should be surveyed and used, so that we, the people who own the land, may have the survey made. And as to the application of Karama Puhi for the Commissioners to have Parliament accept that map as correct, we who are here are opposed to that, as we wish to have the land surveyed again. I will explain now to the Commissioners the trouble that exists in connection with that map. There are three separate pieces of land included in the land shown on that map. One of the pieces of land included in that map belongs to the person called Werohia. Werohla did not wish the survey of the whole of that land made. It was done secretly. The second piece of land included belongs to us who are here now. Neither did we nor our parents see the first survey made of that land. Whataparaoa is the name of the person who owns the third division of that land, and W 7hataparaoa knew nothing of the survey of the block including his portion within that map. These three reasons are the grounds we have for disapproving of that map, and that is the reason why I ask the Commissioners that we may be able to survey our own particular portion of that land, so that we shall not encroach upon any portion of the other two pieces. That, then, is our request —that we ourselves may have our own particular portion surveyed, so that we can bring it before the Native Land Court and have it dealt with. It is over thirty years since that survey was made. That map was produced before Judge Maning in 1866, and it was owing to the fact that we objected to the map at that time that the Court did not deal with the land. And that map was not produced again before the Court until September, 1890. When the map was produced on this last occasion before the Court it was before Judge Puckey, and he said that the map was a wrong map, and in consequence of that he Avould not adjudicate upon the land. That is the reason why we think it is a wrong map, and that it should not be accepted by the Court; and we therefore ask the Commissioners not to make any application to Parliament to have that plan accepted, but that it be condemned, and that there be a new survey made of the land. That is all I have to say about that point. Perhaps the Commissioners may have something to ask me. I make this application to the Commissioners because Karama Puhi asked the Commissioners to have the matter brought before Parliament. Karama Puhi does not oaaui that land, and when the title comes to be investigated it will be discovered that he is not an owner. Mr. Bees : The Commissioners yesterday told the Natives in the Court that the only thing Ave could do in the matter would be to say in our report that the Natives complain that plans about which a great deal of money was spent were refused by the Court when brought forward; and then the Commissioners should ask that it should be ascertained Avhether the plans were good or not. They could only ask, " Let it be seen whether the plans are good or not." The Commissioners could not take Hiramai's part against Karama Puhi, nor Karama Puhi's part against Hiramai. All we can say is that certain Natives appeared and said they had gone to great expense about plans, and the plans were throAvn out. In some of the cases of these old plans no doubt it will be found that there is no dispute among the people at all, but that, unlike this case, everybody assents. Now, if these plans are found to be correct, about which there is no dispute, then Parliament may say, " If these plans are correct, and there is no dispute, we will not put the Maoris to the expense of another survey. We will take your survey as correct, and save you the expense of another survey." But where there is a dispute as to the surveys we could not ask the Legislature to say the plan was a good plan. We should say, " Let everybody come before the Court and be heard, and then let a just decision be given." And we should say this, most likely—l do not say that the Commissioners will do so, because I have not talked on the subject to Mr. Carroll or Mr. Mackay—but Ave should probably say, " Let the Natives meet together and talk over these plans, calling in chiefs who are not interested to say whether they could not agree how to cut the land up ; because if they agree the matter Avould be settled." It might then be quite possible they would meet, and talk amongst themselves —men like Hone Peeti, Hone Mohi Tawhai, Wi Katene, and Eparaima te Mutu—hearing what the Natives say, talking it all over with them, and tHen an agreement be arrived at that this party's land lies here, that party's land lies there, this land goes to one hapu and that land to another hapu. In that way a common arrangement would be come to. Hiramai: That, if acceded to, would be a very good proposal. It would be a very good arrangement. There is no doubt that perhaps some would lay claim to land that they had no right to. The arrangement proposed is a very excellent one. Still, there would be disputation among the Natives. Mr. Bees : But if they talked it over among themselves it would be found that they would come pretty nearly to the actual facts as they stand. There might be a mistake on some point—about a creek, or a tree, or a post, or a hill, or something of that kind—because the lands have never been surveyed by a surveyor, and they would have to trust to memory and tradition, and do the best they could. When there was a dispute whether this Avas the point or that, this was the hill or that, they would have to leave it to the general runanga to decide, and then everybody would agree to give the surveyor instructions to lay off these lines as decided upon. This has reference to the general proposition of the Maoris settling these things among themselves. Hiramai : The Commissioners' suggestion that the Natives should meet, themselves, and discuss their various claims, and that the matter might be settled in that way, is right. In this particular case we had two meetings of the Committees and the runangas, but the matter was not settled satisfactorily. I quite agree that the Commissioners are quite right in what they say; but in our case a satisfactory settlement has not been attained. We ask them that this map may not be authorised, and that there be a new survey, and that we can then bring the matter before the Court and have our disputes settled. Some of the chiefs say that the Native Land Court is bad; others say it is good. I say it is good. Wi Katene spoke yesterday about Native Committees. The only difference that was spoken of Avas that there should be an officer of the Government connected with the Committee. Ido not think that one officer of the Government would be able to override the number of people who would be on the Committee. And in that way, through the action of the Committees, the lands of persons have gone to the chiefs. That is why I say that good has come D—G. 1.