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4513. And you say that ho sometimes operates in a general ward ?—Yes. 4532. What is the nature of the ward that he generally operates in ? —lt is simply a small room containing three or four beds. He has a very small amount of accommodation at his disposal. In my time, when under Dr. Angus Macdonald, Dr. 11. Croom was the one and Professor A. P. Simpson the other gynecologist. They sometimes operated in a side-room, and they sometimes took their patients to the general operating-theatre. 4533. Had they any special appliances in these rooms for operating?—No ; they had no special appliances. 4534. Now, do you know No. 5 ward in our Hospital. ? —Yes; it is over Nos. 4 and 1. 4535. Could you safely operate in that ward?— From what I have seen I think you could quite safely operate there. The light is good enough at the end of the ward. 4536. You know about the appliances in the ward, the hot water, and so forth?—l do not know them particular!}', but I think they are the same in all the wards. 4537. Do you think that sufficient hot water can bo obtained there?— Certainly. It is merely a question of having a sufficient number of people to fetch it. 4538. How does that ward compare with the others? —It is larger, that is all; so far as light and conveniences are concerned the wards are practically the same. 4539. We have heard a great deal about mortality-rates, and have been told that the only satisfactory conclusion to be arrived at regarding them is to see how many people came into a hospital, how many were discharged, and how many went oat dead?— That is only one instance where people have been judging by results. These must be analysed. 4540. Do you think that any satisfactory conclusion can be derived from such statistics?— ■ Possibly the University section of the medical staff desire no analysis. 4541. Do you admit that there is a University section? —I do not admit that there is an anti-University one. 4542. Do you think the mortality-rate can be ascribed to " hospitalism " ?—There really seems to me to have been nothing like a serious epidemic of "'hospitalism," so far as I can judge. I have carefully listened to all the evidence given, and so far as I can make out there does not seem to have ever been a case dying from the most severe form of " hospitalism," common enough in hospitals in olden days—viz., pyaemia. Septic poisoning has been talked about, but it has not been separated into its component classes; but pyaemia — that is, essentially "hospitalism"—has not been mentioned as far as I know. Mr. Solomon : It has been : the case of the man B . 4543. Mr. White] And in your experience of other hospitals you have also seen erysipelas cases ?—Yes. 4544. And it has arisen in them ? —Yes, I think so. Here they are actually brought in. I. myself had one case. At one time the air was full of erysipelas matter before I knew of the fact, and then one of my cases had been in the Hospital for twenty-four hours. That was a week or two before these cases broke out. 4545. The Chairman.] Do you think that is wrong ?—lt is certainly wrong. There should be an isolating ward in the Hospital. 4546. Mr. White.] Then, about Kate W : what was the nature of her case?— She was admitted under my care. Immediately I saw her I made up my mind she was rather a surgical case than a medical one, and I handed her over to Dr. Coughtrey, who was the surgeon of the day, as I was the physician. 4547. W 7as there any reason to think she had erysipelas?—l do not think so. I never heard of erysipelas appearing at ten one morning and not a vestige of it remaining early next morning. That was her condition. We saw 7 her separately, and then consulted about her case after we had seen her together. She had an erythematous flush over one leg. Next morning there was no swelling of the skin and no appearance of redness. 4548. Was there any reason why she should have been isolated ?—Yes ; she was a suspicious case, and the most prompt measures were taken as soon as we suspected she had erysipelas. We knew there were some cases in the Hospital that would be specially liable to have erysipelas added to their present maladies. I was led to believe there were septic cases in the Hospital. I knew of one myself. 2549. Do you remember Mrs. S 's case ?—Yes ; I was present at the operation. 4550. Dr. Batchelor said you were not? —But I was. As a matter of fact I assisted Dr. Batchelor by working the douche. 4551. Did anything special occur during the operation ?—Yes ; the douche stopped working for a minute or so. I had not noticed it was a patent one until one of the students told me to pump it. That is why I remember particularly the incident. 4552. It ran out? —There is a pump on it. It is a siphon douche, but with the addition of a pump to start it in case it should run out, or to start it again after the jug is refilled. 4533. You assisted at the post-mortem ?— Yes. 4554. Will you kindly describe what you found there ?—The whole condition ? Mr. Solomon : There is a report about it. 4555. Mr. White.] Did you sign the report?— Yes. Ido not know if there are any remarks in it requiring elucidation. It is the copy of our remarks. 4556. We did not know of these remarks written by Dr. Copland ? —Dr. Copland acted a,spostmortem clerk to Dr. Eoberts and myself while the post-mortem was being performed, and he made a report from our dictation as we-went on. 4557. In Dr. Batchelor's letter to the Trustees he states that "he could positively assert that Mrs. S——'s death was due entirely to unhealthy hospital influences." Now, from what you know of the case, and the temperature chart, which shows she had a rise in temperature before