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6124. Are those simple cases that you refer to ?—Yes. 6125. And you say that the Christchurch return includes simple cases which are not included in the Dunedin return ?—Yes. Perhaps it would be better if I were to leave Dr. Copland to analyse this return, as he was my guide in this matter. 6126. But I understand you to adhere to your statement that the Christchurch return contains a number of operations that are not included in the Dunedin return ?—Certainly; a very large number. 6127. Mr. Chapman.] You can say that as a general conclusion from reading over that paper? —Yes. I find a case of radical cure of hernia and of death resulting from it in the return used by Mr. Solomon the other day, but I cannot find it in the Hospital book. 6128. Mr. Solomon. J The man's name was D. H , and he was operated on on the 30th November ? —Well, if it was put down as a case of radical cure of hernia it is grossly unfair to the surgeon and to the Dunedin Hospital. 6129. But he was operated on for strangulated hernia?— That is a misleading statement. I am clearly given to understand that it was for strangulation of the bowel. I take this case as a fair illustration. I say that before you can compare one hospital with another on the point of these operations you must know all the conditions under which the operation is performed. What may be called radical cure in one hospital is a totally different thing under another surgeon. Mr. Solomon: We do not say that this man's death was due to the operation, but that death occurred after the operation. 6130. Mr. Chapman.] But you give that case as an instance in support of your statement that cases are wrongly included in your return ?—Yes; and I say that the use of the case in that way is unfair both to the Hospital and the surgeon who operated. 6131. The Chairman.] It was a death after operation ? —Yes. 6132. But was not caused by the operation, and you desire to draw attention to that fact ?—Yes. 6133. Mr. Chapman.] But probably the Christchurch returns have carefully kept that out ? — I cannot say anything about that. Mr. Solomon : In the Christchurch return you have every operation that was performed there during the period named, and every death that occurred after operation. 6134. Mr. Chapman.] Those are the only observations you wish to make in regard to that return, apart from any information which has been supplied to you by the house surgeon ?—Yes. 6135. And I understand that the information supplied to you by the house surgeon is to be found in the operation-book ?—Yes. 6136. Now, in connection with the subject of septicaemia, we have heard a great deal about several cases that have occurred in the Hospital. Have you directed your attention to Mrs. S 's case ? —Yes. 6137. Do you know anything of that case yourself?— Not personally. 6138. You have heard the evidence of the various witnesses ?—I heard the evidence of Dr. Batchelor and the various witnesses. 6139. The Chairman.] Those are the sources of your information, and that is all you know about it ? —Yes. 6140. Mr. Chapman.] At all events, you heard the letter that Dr. Batchelor wrote on the subject ? —Yes, I heard that read. 6141. You have also seen the post-mortem certificate, have you not ?—Yes. 6142. And you were present at the post-mortem I —Yes. 6143. Did you form any conclusion as to whether this woman's death was due to the condition < ithe Hospital? —The conclusion that I have formed is that, before her death can bo placed down tany alleged insanitary state of the wards, other causes must be eliminated. 6144. Mr, Careiv.] Other possible causes, I suppose ? 6145. Mr. Chapman.] May there have been other possible causes not mentioned?— Yes; the temperature for one, if the state on the chart is correct. The Chairman: I think that the temperature chart carries no weight with it. The Commissioners have consulted together, and are clearly of opinion that it is quite broken down as a piece of evidence. It cannot be assumed that the temperature was shown on the chart. (To Mr. Carew): You agree with that. Mr. Carew : Yes. 6147. Mr. Chapman.} You can only express your opinion on an assumption which may not be well founded ? —I think that other causea besides the temperature chart should be eliminated. 6148. If the entry in the clerk's record of a sticky yellow discharge is correct, would that be a cause to be eliminated ? —Yes ; the sticky yellow discharge might be a cause of infection. 6149. The Chairman.] Would it necessarily be a septic discharge ?—I cannot think of it except as a clearly-defined purulent discharge. 6150. Would you call it a purulent discharge ? —I never get any discharge which does not contain some pus. I cannot think of such a sticky yellow discharge which does not contain a certain amount of purulent element. 6151. Such a discharge must, in your opinion, have been purulent ?—lt must have contained purulent elements. 6152. Mr. Chapman.] These records that were kept by the doctor's clerk, what do you consider is the duty of a surgeon in regard to them ? —I can only speak for myself. I read them over myself. You see, each man is a law unto himself. 6153. The Chairman.] Do^you read over from the case-book what has been written?—l read the notes that are made on slips of paper. 6154. Even when you made a special examination of the patient yourself ? —That is my order of procedure in these cases.