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3995. Well, can you tell me this: Was it your custom—because I presume you were acting under instructions—to advertise the name of the particular estate to which any of these effects belonged, or simply to advertise that certain effects would be sold? —Yes ; just that certain effects would be sold. 3996. So that the name of the estate of deceased was never mentioned ?—No. 3997. When these sales were taking place, do you know, of your own knowledge, whether any of the effects were from time to time purchased by officers in the Public Trust Office ?—Yes, they were. 3998. Did Mr. De Castro buy many ? —1 would not say a great many. I know he bought several articles. 3999. Did Mr. Hamerton buy several articles ?—I cannot say. I think on some occasions Mr. Hamerton did buy, but I cannot recollect. 4000. Have you the books in your office recording all those sales ?—Unfortunately we have not. 4001. From what time, or up to what time, have you the books ?—I do not think we have the books further back than the new partnership—since Mr. Bristow joined Mr. Haybittle, about a year ago. 4002. You think the books up to a year ago are not to be found?—l know they are not to be found. 4003. What became of them? —At the time the firm was altered, and Mr. Bristow became a partner, we had a clerk next to me named Martelli, who kept the books. Mr. Martelli, at the instigation of Mr. Bristow, took certain books and destroyed them, Mr. Bristow understanding at the time when he gave him instructions that these books were simply old books, without any value at all, and that no reference would be required to be made to them. 4004. Then, when the junior partner in the present firm commenced business with Mr. Haybittle, he gave Mr. Martelli instructions to destroy certain books, believing they were of no value ? —Yes. 4005. What else happened ?—Mr. Martelli—l would say inadvertently, because it was not done with any purpose—took all the old auction-books with the others—took a whole cart-load. 4006. Where did he take them to ?—To the destructor. 4007. Then, I suppose there were a good many records of deceased persons in those books ?— Yes. 4008. And they have gone where the parties originally interested have gone, to another place ? —Yes. 4009. I suppose you never had any sales of effects from the Public Trust Office without some portion of them being purchased by some one connected with the Public Trust Office?— Yes. 4010. Do you think you ever passed a sale without some article having been purchased bysome one connected with the Public Trust Office?— Severa l; it was the exception, not the rule. 4011. Now we must be precise in this matter, and you will excuse my asking you a little more particularly about it. You have told us that on an average you had about eight sales a year ?—Yes. 4012. Now, that would give, at any rate, two sales each quarter ?—Yes. 4013. Have three months passed without an officer of the Public Trust Office buying something ?—Yes, certainly. 4014. Now, could you, by your books, give us a statement to that effect ? Can you indicate a quarter showing the different sales where officers of the Public Trust Office have not purchased ?— No ; that is quite impossible now. 4015. But you could for the last year?—l think we could give that information for the last year, with the exception that some one else bought for some one in the Public Trust Office, and that we might not know. 4016. Have you not sometimes been asked in a friendly way by some one in the Public Trust Office who could not attend the sale to buy any article he might want ?—Yes. 4017. More than once ? —Yes; I believe upon two or three different occasions. 4018. Do you remember the names of the officers for whom you have bought ?■—As for having bought, I may tell you that I never bought anything for any of the' officers myself; but it was not an unusual thing for one of the officers to come and put a price on a certain article and say to me, "If that goes for that price you can buy it for me; if it realises more I won't give it." In that case—whether unfortunate or not for them I cannot say—the goods always fetched a higher price than they would give. Virtually, I never got anything for them. 4019. In reality, under those circumstances, nothing ever fell to you, because the bidding was always higher?— Yes, that is so. 4020. Well, I understood you to say just now that when you were asked to oblige the officers of the Public Trust Office in that way you never bid yourself?—Oh, no. 4021. Do you mean to say that nothing was ever knocked down to you when bidding on behalf of an officer of the Public Trust Office?— Yes, I am quite certain. 4022. Have you ever bought anything for yourself ? —Yes, 4023. Has Mr. Bristow ever bought anything for himself?— Yes. 4024. Mr. Haybittle ?—I believe Mr. Haybittle has bought for himself. 4025. All of Messrs. Thomas and Co.'s partners and people ?—I think all more or less must have bought little things from time to time. 4026. Had you much auctioneering to do at the Mataura?—Yes ; I had a good deal. 4027. When you were carrying on business for yourself as one of the firm of McGibbon and Co., did you ever buy anything for yourself that was put into, your hands for sale?— Yes; not directly. 4028. How did you do it ?—I instructed some other person to buy for me.