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4140. Has it any pretensions whatever to be perfect ?—What I mean is, that if I called for any paper, no matter how old, that paper would be produced in five minutes or less, but when hundreds of papers are called for at the same time, it has not proved the perfect system that I anticipated? 4141. Well, now, candidly speaking, do you not believe, and have you not been already convinced, that your Public Trust Office was and is in a thorough muddle?— You are putting it harshly. 4142. I am putting it strongly, I admit, but speaking from my experience I do not know any other way of putting it. You are quite justified in saying it was and is not, if it be not so, but from your experience can you come to any other conclusion than that it was and is in a thorough muddle? —No, I cannot say it is in a muddle; but I will say it is unable to bear the immense strain that has been put upon it during the last two months. 4143. Mr. Macdonald.} But you know, as a matter of fact, that one could keep the Commission open for weeks and weeks in going over estates which, not only in the Wellington office but in your agency branches, have revealed upon the face of them very grave mismanagement both at the Head Office and at the branches. I have a list here of a large number of estates. I have taken out several which are pretty fair samples of a large number that have been examined. For weeks we have been here going through the papers, and naturally have acquired a much more intimate knowledge in taking a comprehensive grasp of the whole position from the beginning than would otherwise have been the case, and the story of the Public Trust administration is one in many cases of very bad judgment, not in all cases against yourself; because in this very bad case to which I have now referred it does seem to me you were not altogether to blame for the lapse that has occurred, because you gave the order, but did not see it carried out. I have a large number of cases, but it is useless following them all up. One could go through tbem one after another, and reveal things that ought never to have existed, but it would only be a waste of time. One may take a typical case here and there, so as to advise a remedy. I have hosts of estates in my memorandumbook which I might keep you on for days, but I do not see what further object could be gained by troubling you with them. 4144. The Chairman.] Mr. Hamerton, I like to be terse and to come to the point. After what has been brought under your knowledge as to the state of confusion which the Commissioners have found in your office, do you not think the business has grown quite beyond your capacity ?—lt is grown entirely beyond my capacity—that is to say, what could have been managed by an ordinary man in 1880, when I was appointed, cannot be managed now, and for years I have been very much overweighted, immensely. 4145. Have you been killed with detail work instead of supervision, or by both?—l knew I was responsible individually, and I desired to do what I could to direct individually. I found out that it was hopeless, and when I recommended the change to Government I pointed out to Ministers that so much work was thrown upon me that very likely questions of importance would be overlooked. For the first time do I glean any knowledge of the state of things which Mr. Macdonald has brought under my notice, and, of course, it shocks me very much. 4146. Mr. Loughrey.] I have been through upwards of 700 files of papers, and the list I forwarded you the other day contains 250 cases concerning which the Commissioners wish to inquire into. Do you think, when such a large number of inquiries have to be made, out of 700 files of papers, that the office can be conducted in a proper manner? You have already been examined concerning several cases, and you acknowledged you did not know much about them. Does not the fact of so many inquiries having to be made concerning the administration of estates convince you that, these estates have not been as well managed as they might have been?— That, I think, is the natural sequence to the overweight of which I complained, but I think it is only fair to myself to say that those cases were not dealt with by me. 4147. A great number of them have been?— Yes ; but many of them were before my appointment. 4148. You asked for time to look through the files of papers ?—Yes. 4149. Have you looked through them since ?—Yes. 4150. What conclusion have you come to as to the management of the estates named in that list?— Well, I confess I only looked through the papers to endeavour, if I could, to ascertain what was the particular point in your mind, and I did not go into the whole administration of the estates. So that I am afraid I cannot reply to your question. 4151. For example, take the papers in the case of Hugh Wright, a lunatic. Do you remember that estate ?—Yes. 4152. Will you read the letter from Miss Wright to you? Gentlemen, — Christchurch, 22nd April, 1891. Be Hugh Wright, a lunatic : Being the daughter and only child of the above-named Hugh Wright, and—as my father is incurable —the one most affected by the administration of his property, I wish to request your attention to this estate and its administration, and to place before you the following statements, based on documents filed in the Supreme Court, Christchurch, accounts furnished by the Public Trustee, and facts within my own knowledge. The estate was placed in the hands of the Public Trustee in February, 1884. In 1887 it was valued at £9,000. The charges against the estate were—(l) The cost of administration ; (2) the payment of debts ; (3) the maintenance of the lunatic and myself. The amount of debts paid by the estate is £654 ; the amount required for maintenance up to August, 1890 (reduced since then), was £130 12s. per annum. So that an estate of £9,000 was only required to pay costs of administration, discharge debts of £654, and provide maintenance of £130 per year. The result of the administration by the Public Trustee during eight years has been that the estate is now worth only £3,700. The following are some of the particulars of the manner in which this result has been achieved : The debts of the lunatic consisted of claims by three brothers made in 1888, and ascertained at £268 each ; total, £804. Of this amount £150 is still due. Two of the brothers made their claim in the first instance jointly; the claim of the third brother was allowed subsequently as a matter of course, and without dispute. The claim of the two brothers was ascertained, and fixed at £536 by action in the Supreme Court. The result of the action depended upon the plaintiffs proving their case, there being no defence outside of this ; yet the plaintiffs' costs against the estate amounted to £430, and the costs of the Public Trustee in connection therewith and incidental thereto amounted to £779—that is to say, that the settling of a claim of £536 cost £1,209. Altogether over £1,600 has been paid in legal