207

H.—3

4757. Are you not aware that vouchers paid into mercantile houses and banks are often made out by the officer in the bank or mercantile house ? —Yes ; and signed by the payer. 4758. Then here is the first book where the first entry is made, and, therefore, if an amount subsequently is disputed, where would the officers of the Public Trust Office afterwards go for reference ? Would they not go first to look at the book in which the entry was first made ? Would they not come back to this book—the primary circumstance of the entry?—No doubt the cash ought to be entered in the cash-book of the office. I look upon this book as private memoranda. 4759. Mr. Macdonald.] What do you call the cash-book ? —The cash-book kept in the office. 4760. Should you keep that rough cash-book for reference ?—No. 4761. The Chairman.] Then what would you do with it? —Put it into the fire, provided the entry had been made in the cash-book belonging to the office. If that memoranda-book supersedes any book of the office it is exceedingly wrong. 4762. Supposing your idea was carried out, you say that the rough cash-book where the first entry of cash was made, after it had been transcribed into what you call the large cash-book, might be put in the fire ? —When I say the thing should be put in the fire it is equivalent to saying that I think this book should never have been kept at all. That is what I mean —that it is of no use. 4763. Now, we know these books have been kept daily for many years, and there have been in use about twenty of them. Now, knowing that they have been kept, should they be kept in that state?—l really do not know what the books are. If they are the cash-books of the office they are of course in a disgraceful state ; but I do not think they are the first cash-books of the office. Mr. E. C. Hameeton, Public Trustee, further examined. 4764. The Chairman.] Mr. Hamerton, referring again to Storer's estate, have you made the inquiries the Commissioners asked you to make ?—Yes ; I have received a telegram from Greymouth stating that the purchaser of the Wealth of Nations mining shares in Storer's estate was Arthur John Chamberlain, of Greymouth. 4765. Now, Mr. Hamerton, are you in the habit, when you find personalty such as mining shares in an estate that falls into your hands, of carrying those shares on and paying calls?—Oh, no! The usual practice, of course, is to sell—the almost invariable practice. There are occasions when it is considered advisable to hold on for a time. 4766. Then why hold on?—lt would not have been done in this case but for the advice of one of the deceased's heaviest creditors, Mr. Meek. 4767. Now, supposing Mr. Meek states that he never gave such advice, would you contradict him ?—I should say, in my opinion, he was mistaken. 4768. But have you satisfied yourself that through your treatment of Storer's estate, only worth within £100, that with regard to those shares the estate suffers a loss of £40 odd ?—The estate does suffer, no doubt, from holding on. 4769. It suffers a loss equal to 4s. 3d. a share. You were offered 4s. 9d. before you paid the sixpenny call. Therefore the loss suffered per share is equal to 4s. 3d. ?-—That is so. 4770. On 200 shares that would be £40 odd ?—Yes. 4771. What was the value of that estate altogether ?—I cannot say from memory. It could not be more than about £80, the whole thing. 4772. So that half the estate has gone by that mistake ?—lt is scarcely a mistake : it may be an error of judgment. 4773. Then £40 odd ha's been lost by that small estate through your error of judgment?— Quite so. 4774. Now, have you found anything further in reference to Sanderson's estate ?—Yes ; I have got the papers here. 4775. Will you tell me how the mortgage by Eanderson was made up ? I gather from what you said yesterday that the £1,000 originally lent to Eanderson came out of several contributing estates ?—Yes. 4776. What estates ? —Henare Kaihau's, £280 ; Miss Burnes's trust, £250 ; and Andrew Cunningham's, Napier, £470. 4777. Had you, before lending those several sums of money belonging to Henare Kaihau, Miss Burnes, and Andrew Cunningham, letters of authority respectively from them to the Public Trustee agreeing to the money being put together in that way on one common mortgage ?—No. 4778. You never communicated with them before you lent the money?— No. 4779. Then, you first lent the money out of what you call your Special Investment Account ? —Yes. 4780. Will there be a loss on the security ?—Well, I am in hope there will not be. 4781. How much money have you got in hand from it ?—£6B. 4782. And you have got, therefore, £932 to collect yet ? —Yes. 4783. How long is it since you realised the £68 ?—lt was December, 1885. 4784. And you have received no money since ? —No. 4785. What have you done about paying interest to those several mortgagees ?—The interest is stopped. 4786. Have the beneficiaries not remonstrated ?—Yes. 4787. And have they not demanded their interest ?—Yes ; but there is no help for it. 4788. Did you, when you lent this money, advise them you had lent it ?—WTien the first statement went in it was stated how the mortgages stood. 4789. Have you now a right, as Public Trustee, to transfer any balance in your books to what you call the Special Investment Account ?—I take it that under the deeds of trusts and wills I have that right. 4790. To put it to Special Investment Account first ? —No.