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troubles and faults to be met with, also shipping difficulties and want of rolling-stock, and interruptions from the state of the bar. 486. Do you consider the coal-mining business has been fairly satisfactory to the mine-owners? —No; I think it has been anything but satisfactory in the past so far as investment is concerned. We worked for twelve years and got nothing. We sold out for £16,000 of the £22,000 we put into it. We did not actually pay that all in at once, but we made it up in the twelve years. If we made a thousand pounds profit we would spend fifteen hundred or so. 487. You are not of opinion that an outside trade could be successfully established here in coal?—Of course the outside trade could be established well enough, but it becomes a question of competition. 488. We have evidence that vessels carrying from 1,600 to 1,700 tons have gone out of this port ?—Although we send cargo over to Melbourne, I do not think more than two cargoes have gone over, and then, possibly, there may have been some special reason. But Ido not think the coal would pay at the price they were getting for it over at Melbourne. 489. Do you know if there is any coal-duty in Victoria? —I think there is about Is. a ton. My experience of the coal trade is this : The great difficulties in its working are, as a matter of fact, due to the causes I have mentioned, and the keen competition and the great facilities other mines, such as at Newcastle, have had—good ports to load at, and the seams get-at-able—so that people who have put money into it here have not been able to get much out of it. What between the railway freights and royalty, well, the lion's share is gone and the wages takes the balance. The Westport Company have never paid more than a 5-per-cent. dividend for the last year, and perhaps 2J per cent, before that. The Brunner may possibly have done a little on account of its shipping. The drawbacks are too great for any small company to make money. If we could have kept the work going steadily I believe we could have made good money. I know this: that so far as this coal district is concerned it wants all the help it can get. If we could have had a port at Point Elizabeth where a vessel could have sailed in and loaded up it would have been all right. So far as getting money is concerned, investors in West Coast coal-mines have not made a fortune yet.

Friday, 17th October, 1890. Mr. James Bishop sworn and examined. 490. The Chairman.] What are you, Mr. Bishop?—l am manager of the Grey Valley Coal Company's mine. 491. You have certificates, and are on the New Zealand Eegister ?—Yes. 492. What experience have you had as mine-manager ? —I have had twenty-five years' experience. 493. How long have you been in Now Zealand?—l have been eleven years in New Zealand. 494. And where did you come from?—l came from England to New Zealand, to Shag Point first, and from there to the West Coast. I have been now eight years on the West Coast, where I was first in the Brunner Mine, and since the amalgamation of the Grey Valley mines I have been the manager of the amalgamated mines. 495. Who was your employer when you first took charge ?—Mr. Martin Kennedy. 496. In what year was that?—On the 4th August, 1882, I took charge of the Brunner Mine, and on the 7th August, 1888, the properties were amalgamated. 497. You then had charge of the Brunner, Coal-pit Heath, Wallsend, and Tyneside ?—Yes. 498. Can you give us a sketch of the work that has been done —we will take the Brunner Mine first—during the time you have had charge of it?— The Brunner Mine, at the time I took charge of the coal-workings, was to the dip of the field. Finding a piece of coal lying between the Coal-pit Heath and the Brunner on the east side of the fault, we commenced trying to recover the coal to the west of the main fault. 499. What measures did you take ?—Opening up the stone-drift and carrying it along the bearing of the fault, and thus opening up access to the coal. This drive is 920 ft. 500. Was there not a trial drive put in in another direction ? —Yes. 501. What did it cost?—l do not know, because it was done prior to my entering Mr. Kennedy's employment; but we spent about £4,000, exclusive of money spent prior to my taking charge. 502. That is, in proving that main fault? —Yes. Then, after securing the coal beyond the fault, we worked some coal to the extreme rise of that fault, where it dies out. The coal on the two sides of the fault comes together again to the rise. 503. The coal was worked too high up on the hill ? —Yes. We made an incline through the old workings. The pillars had been partly taken out. We have been taking the pillars out in the workings I have referred to. 504. Which working ? —That was the upper working. 505. Has the roof come down ?—Yes. 506. It is closed up entirely, then ?—Yes. 507. How high is that above the main water-level?— That must be about 350 ft. 508. How far back from the brow of the cliff?—lt was about 1,000 yards to the level. Directly back from the river it would not be more than 700 or 800 yards. 509. There are no pillars taken out nearer the river than that ?—Not since I came. 510. How far would your pillars be taken out in relation to that precipitous cliff at the back of the mine ?—A considerable distance—about 400 or 500 yards. 511. What cover had you where th: roof came down?—We have taken no means of ascertaining it. The roof falls particularly where the timber has been removed,