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3287. The Chairman.] Before the lock-out, do you mean ?—Before the 20-per-cent. arrangement. 3288. Mr. Brown.] The company did not introduce it?—lt was introduced by the minors. 3289. Do you know why it was introduced ?—Well, their side of the question is this : They reckon that by their putting on the restriction every man would have equal pay. 3290. That there would be an equality?— Yes. 3291. Was that levelling down or up ? —lt was levelling down to some and levelling up to others. 3292. How did it level up ?—Perhaps one pair of men might be in a near place and the others might be farther into the mine, and those who are near would probably get more trucks than those so far off; therefore one pair of men might make a five-pound note more than the others. 3293. How is the delivery of the empty trucks to the miners arranged ? —They are so arranged that each one has his turn—that is, if he can keep his turn going. 3294. The Chairman.] Would you explain exactly how that is done?— There are so many trucks on to an incline, and they go all round until each man has had his turn. If, however, one man is not ready when he is called upon they call upon the next man. 3295. You mean if he has not a full truck ready ?—Yes, if he has not a full truck ready he is passed. 3296. Mr. Brown.] The company's instructions to their truckers are to deliver to each man equally as soon as they are ready ?—Yes. 3297. The Chairman.] If this were carried out fairly, would the truckers near the outlet at the mine have any advantage over the others ?—No. 3298. So that if there is anything wrong in this respect it arises from the action of the truckers ?—Yes. 3299. Then, I suppose, any difficulty as to any difference in the value of a place in the mine is overcome by what is termed cavilling ?—Yes. 3300. Mr. Brown.] How is that carried, out ?—The cavilling? 3301. Yes?—lt is simply a lottery. The names are put on slips of paper and the numbers of the places on other slips, and these are put into a box and the men draw them. 3302. The Chairman.] It is a ballot?— Yes; just the same. 3303. Mr. Brown.] Do the truckers shirk the duty that lies upon them of equally distributing these trucks ?—No. 3304. You are not aware of their doing so?— No. They do not do it wilfully. 3305. But a man might be missed?— Yes, a man might be easily missed. 3306. You, as deputy, never interfere with the truckers, do you? —No; but if one of the men lodged a complaint saying that So-and-so had so many trucks more than he did on any day I should go then and tell the trucker to make that man back his turn, so as to keep the turns square. 3307. Have you had complaints of that sort?— Yes, very often. 3308. And you have rectified them ?—Yes; according to the best of my ability. 3309. Is there a complaint-book in the mine into which miners can enter any complaints ?— Yes ; they have a report book. 3310. You look at the book?— Yes; they come and examine the mine once a month chiefly. 3311. By " they " you mean the Inspectors? —Yes. If there is anything they wish to put in the book it is there for them to do so. 3312. If there was a complaint about the regularity of the trucks it would be the Inspector's business to enter that in the book?—lf they thought fit, or go to the manager. If they thought I did not take steps sufficient to give them satisfaction they might go to the manager and lodge a complaint with him. It has never yet been done in connection with such a thing as the truck system. 3313. I have not yet got your explanation about levelling up through this process of restriction. How does it level up ?—There is a great deal of difference in the men's abilities. We will say an inferior man does not strive to earn as much as another man anxious to get on in the world, and the one man would earn more money than the other; and to alter this they put on this restriction, so that each man should share alike. That was not their idea from the foundation of it: it was merely because they would stop earning so much money. 3314. The restriction was at the point at which the inferior man stopped ?—No. It was carried in their meeting that this restriction should be put on. 3315. On the men who made the most money?—On the men who made the most money. But the foundation of it is this : that taking them right through they found they had a pretty good safe thing on, I suppose, and they put this restriction on so that they would not make more than this amount, which every man in the mine could make. 3316. Mr. Moody.] They did not want the outside world to see that they could make so much more money than they ought to make for a reasonable day's work ?—Yes ; that is about the size of it. 3317. Mr. Brown.] Then, did they forego their right to make so much money and take it out in easier hours ?—They could make their money perhaps in a three-quarter day; in fact, I have seen men myself on a Saturday, wheu I have been going round out of the meal-hour, sitting down, having earned enough during that week. 3318. Yet at the same time the company had to pay the truckers there?— Yes, and the surface-men as well. 3319. Have you any opportunity of judging of tho amount of slack turned out in the mine before March and afterwards ?—I have not. 3320. Your position frees you from being a member of the union at all?— Yes.