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yourselves, and satisfy yourselves whether they are truthful persons." I think the same remark might be made very forcibly with regard to Chemis. The GJiairman: I, myself, would like to see Chemis here. Mr. Jellicoe : If people are to be called for the purpose of being seen and testing the truthfulness of evidence, I suggest to the Committee to have Chemis examined. With regard to the shotpouch and knife found by Low, it appears to be necessary for Low to be called, for it will appear from his evidence that he told the people that he was searching Hawkings's place. When he found the articles he was seen, and he showed the articles to those who saw him. The Chairman : The question seems to me to be to identify the knife with Chemis. Mr. Jellicoe: On the perjury charge against Benjamin a number of witnesses were called with reference to the pouch and knife, and questioned by my friend Mr. Bell; and every person who could give information about these two articles was examined and cross-examined before the Magistrate. It would be necessary for the Committee to look at the evidence if they are going to consider the case and form a judgment on it. I do not understand Mr. Bell to say that that knife caused the wounds upon Hawkings. What he did suggest was that if it was proved that that knife was Chemis's, then that fact operated against the statement that Chemis had no sheath-knife. That was not quite the way he put it before the Magistrates. The allegation then was that this is the knife. When Mr. Eichardson was in the box he deposed that the stiletto could not have caused the wounds. Mr. Gully then said, "Oh ! but there is another knife." Your Committee will remember that lat once accepted the challenge, and put the other knife in Mr. Eichardson's hands, and you have his opinion. It will be necessary for the Committee now to take into consideration that evidence. They can do so without reference to me. The Chairman : I expect it will be a very difficult thing to get persons to come here and say definitely that this knife is Chemis's. Mr. Jellicoe : As to Tolly, there is evidence already before the Committee that Tolly examined the shot-pouch when it was taken to him, and he set it down as No. 3 and 4 shot; and I understand that Tolly would say the same thing now. If my friend proposes to call any further witnesses it will be necessary for me to go into a rebutting case. I shall have to call any witnesses I can get on the same question. When this knife and shot-pouch found by Low were first produced in the Magistrate's Court, Chemis had been examined and gone back to gaol. I ask leave to recall Chemis. I have never seen him from the day he was examined in Court. I asked leave to recall Chemis in order to ask him about the shot-pouch and knife ; I had to ask him what he had to say about them. Mr. Gully opposed that, and the Bench ruled that the knife and shot-pouch were not relevant. They were quite right; but I consider it only right that he should be called, because I want to clear up this mystery. However, Chemis was not recalled, and Ido not know what Chemis would say about it. I wish Chemis to be called before the Committee. Mr. Lake : This knife that so much has been made about, was it ever submitted to Mr. Skey or any one else, to say whether it had been used or not. Mr. Jellicoe : Yes ; it was part of the evidence in the perjury charges. Mr. Lake : Have we the evidence before the Committee ? [Mr. Jellicoe read the whole of the evidence of William Skey.] The Chairman : How long after the murder was this knife found. Mr. Jellicoe : Months after. Adjourned till Monday, 26th instant.

Monday, 26th September. Detective Campbell sworn and examined. 1. Mr. Jellicoe.] Has there been any application made to the department that the police should be represented by counsel before this Committee ? —I made an application some time ago that the police should be represented, as I understood that charges were made against them. I did not want counsel for myself, but I made the application. The answer of the Commissioner was that he was not aware of any charges having been made against the police. 2. You are aware now that there are no charges ?—I have heard you say so since. 3. I find from the report you made to the police that you went out with Inspector Thomson on the Ist of June to Kaiwarra, where this murder was committed ? —I went out with Detective Benjamin ; we walked out. We met Mr. Thomson at Kaiwarra, he having come out by train. 4. Now, what happened on your meeting Thomson ?—Detective Benjamin was instructed to return to town and get a search-warrant. Inspector Thomson went to the scene of the murder. 5. Had you seen any one at Kaiwarra in reference to the murder before you met Mr. Thomson ?—I do not remember. I may have spoken to some one. 6. I mean any person connected with the Hawkings's household before meeting Thomson ? I am now referring to what took place between you and Thomson: had you seen any one before you met Thomson from Hawkings's household ? —I cannot recollect. 7. Did you say anything to Benjamin or to Thomson before Benjamin was instructed to go to Wellington and get a search-warrant?—l could not say. 8. Which of you informed Thomson about the pocket-book?—I cannot remember. 9. You are quite sure you did not see any one at Kaiwarra before meeting Inspector Thomson who referred in any way to the pocket-book ?—I would not say for certain. 10. Your report is here ;it does not appear that you met any one ?—I could not say. 11. You went with Thomson to the scene of the murder?— Yes. 12. Did you meet any one there? —Yes; the Dimock brothers were there; there was also a young man that was employed by Hawkings. 13. A young man named Norman ?—Yes,

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