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225. On your first visit you were not told of Hawkings having been shot ? —I am not quite certain whether I was or not. I am not certain what induced me to give attention to the gorse bushes; but we were searching on the road, on the lower ground, when, in addition to some pieces of cloth, I saw pieces of paper which had all the appearance of having been shot out of a gun; this paper was in small pieces. I am not sure, after this lapse of time, whether I heard anything about shooting before or not. 226. Where did you mark the envelope with the pieces of paper in it which you took from the scene of the murder ?—On the spot. They were very numerous ; I do not know how many at this moment. I had my letters in my pocket. I took one out of the envelope and put the paper in it, writing the word " gorse " on it and the date. 227. When you got the exhibits at the house did you treat them in the same way? —I do not think I marked them till I got out of the house ; I put them in an envelope, and then put them in my pocket. One lot I got from Detective Benjamin I put in my pocket, but a different pocket. It was in my office that I wrote on the envelope where they came from. 228. Did you take any other papers than those you found ?—Those I found on the gorse bushes ; it was from the lower ground I commenced. 229. Where did you put these ? —They were all in my hand. I kept them together. The fragments of paper on the lower ground were very small. lam not sure whether Carroll had not been there earlier in the day. 330. Then you may have taken them earlier in the day?—No, certainly not. As to those found in the gorse, it was then I formed the theory that a shot had been fired. A person stooping down and firing a gun, the wind would possibly blow the paper against the gorse. 231. Did you inspect the body after it was taken to the Morgue?— The body had been taken to the Morgue the previous night. 232. Did you see the wound? —Yes ; I saw it at the inquest. I went in with the jury to see the body. 233. Did you think the stiletto produced would cause those wounds? —I never attached much importance to that. 234. The gun?—l have no doubt the gun used was fired at close quarters, whoever fired it; there was such a large portion of the paper blown into the wound. 235. In the evidence given by the doctor, he says that the shot was only 2in. into the back, and that he could have run a good distance ?—The doctor may have expressed that opinion. I could not say that he would run far. It must have been fired at a very short distance. In this case there was shot as well as bullet. The shot would scatter ; that would perhaps explain the fact of a great deal of surface being affected. 236. Did you examine the clothes minutely for blood spots ?—I did not, but an officer did by my direction examine them in my presence. 237. From Chemis's demeanour did you form any opinion as to his being the culprit ? —The opinion I then formed has been since greatly strengthened : it was that both himself and his wife fully expected our visit, and had arranged to say nothing at all to us. 238. Mr. Jellicoe : I consider this is quite irrelevant; Mr. Thomson's opinion may be right or wrong, but we have nothing to do with his opinion. 239. Mr. Earnshaw.] With regard to that large piece of paper, did all the pieces fit in with that ? Can you say what part of Chemis's house they were brought from ?—I cannot say where they were found ; they were brought to me from an inner room. Detective Benjamin brought them to me. I cannot say whether they came from a drawer or from a shelf. 240. There were some pieces again found on the road and put into an envelope : is it possible that these separate papers could have been mixed up ? Could the pieces said to be found in the house come from the road ?—No, certainly not. All those pieces I took from the gorse bushes were punctured; they were torn. I had some difficulty in getting them from the thorns : that gave them a distinctive appearance as against any large paper. The apertures formed by the thorns were quite visible. I could get evidence of the state they were in when I gave them to Tasker. 241. Mr. Lake.] Is your recollection clear that they were taken away from the house : there were pieces of paper that were placed in a handkerchief ? —They brought to me in a handkerchief pieces of newspaper, also documents ; the stiletto and other articles came to me tied up in this handkerchief. I went to look through these documents to see whether there was anything necessary to be retained. I put aside and retained the pieces of newspaper, and I put the documents on one side ; they were afterwards tied up in the handkerchief; we took from a coat hanging behind the door sonic other pieces of newspaper, These papers were kept in my breast-coat pocket; the papers got from the gorse I took in my coat-tail pocket. 242. After the papers had been taken from the gorse did you attempt to make any examination on that day : did they spread them out ? —No, I did not. I know very little about the papers taken from the house. I could give you no evidence about them ; there were such a number of them that I did not mark any of them. 243. Mr. Allen.'] There is no mistake about the papers you handed to Tasker?—Certainly not. No person saw those papers from the time they came into my possession until I handed them to him. 244. Did you look at them yourself?— Yes ; once for a few minutes, but I never attempted to compare them. 245. This paper that was in your breast pocket, you are quite sure it was taken from the handkerchief? —Undoubtedly; there was no chance of their getting mixed. 246. Mr. Jellicoe.] Will the witness swear that this piece came out of the handkerchief?— The papers brought away were handed to Tasker in the state that I got them. 247. If the witness looked at the paper in the envelope he could say whether there was a piece
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