91

I.—lβ

Henry Norman, sworn, saith : I live at Belmont, at Mrs. Miller's. I left there at 7.30 a.m. this morning, and got in the train at the Hutt. I did not inquire what time it was when I arrived in town. I left the house about 7.30 this morning. I walked about the town. I saw Mr. Bell by the Court here. I inquired for Mr. Bell in the library. I saw him just outside this room; he was walking along. I saw Mr. Bell. I was subpoenaed by the prosecution in this case, and knew Mr. Bell was Benjamin's lawyer. I was a witness for the prosecution in the Chemis case ; before I was called I saw Detective Benjamin twice, I think. I wrote out my evidence and gave it to Benjamin —all except what I knew about Bowles. Benjamin was at the Court—just outside the Supreme Court. It was about Hawkings being threatened up there. Benjamin called me on one side and read it over to me. He said, "You stop there," where I was standing at the time. He gave no answer to what was written in the statement. I did not speak to him again until I gave my evidence. I did not tell the Judge all that was in the statement. Hare was working with me at Hawkings's after the accident. Hare and I were talking together yesterday (25th August). I have not made any statement different to what I have made to-day in reference to what Benjamin said to me when I gave nim the statement. I have never seen the shot-pouch [produced] before. I never saw a shotpouch of Hawkings's. I have not seen Mrs. Hawkings this morning. I never saw a person with a pouch before—that is why I said I never saw the pouch [produced] before. George Frederick Bichardson, sworn, saith : I am Minister of Lands. This gun [produced] and other exhibits were taken into the Cabinet-room after the conviction of Chemis. I saw the gun shortly after it came to the Cabinet-room. The stiletto [produced] was among the exhibits. I used one of the wads in each barrel. I drove them down ; they fitted very well. I got the wads out of a little tin box. I think I would know the box again. I took the wads from the box produced. I have tried experiments in the lower portions of the coat of the deceased. I made three or four cuts just by the tail of the coat. I used it on a rug as well; I simply tried the stiletto once or twice in the rug. I tried it upon paper, the rug, and the coat. Other Ministers were present when I put it through the coat-tail. Mr. Hislop was present; I think he used the stiletto in the tail of the coat. It appears to me to be more rusty than when I saw it last. I examined the clothes ; I saw them in the Cabinet-room. The clothes were not interfered with ; the revolver was not experimented upon. I saw the bandbox [produced] in the Cabinet-room. Ido not know who took off the piece of the top. It was kept in the Cabinet-room. Ido not recollect about the top edge if it was different to what it is now. I took the cartridges out of the revolver. By Mr. Bell.} I would not have hesitated to have taken a piece off the top if I had wanted to make any experiments. I had no communication with the Crown Solicitor. The detectives were not present while any of the experiments were being made. Did not tell Mr. Jellicoe of the experiments being made in the Cabinet. Harry Albert Atkinson re-called: I produced the exhibits now in Court. I then said they were the same as when received. Ido not now adhere to that statement. I did not notice there was any cutting of the edge of the bandbox. My impression is that the box is not now in the same state as when I received it; to the best of my belief the top-edge was straight and uncut. I had not noticed the edge when I was examined previously. lam unable to offer any explanation as to the cutting of the edge since it has been in my possession. I have made inquiries. The exhibits were kept locked-up in the Cabinet-room until after the Cabinet came to a decision as to what advice they would recommend the Governor to follow; but at the time the room was not kept locked. After that I could not say who went into the room. I was in Court on Thursday last when Mrs. Chemis was examined. I first noticed that I thought there was some difference when I put it in the tin, but I was not certain. I, whim I saw it being held up by counsel, thought I could not remember if it had been cut. Mr. Waldegrave brought me the bullets in an envelope, I think, in the box with other things. By Mr. Bell.] I did not count the bullets received in the box. I think there were seven, but I am not sure. Louis Chemis, sworn, saith: I can speak English. I remember the 31st May last; and the police coming to my house on the Ist June, Saturday night, about 4 o'clock or a little after. I have not, since my arrest, had any conversation with my wife except in the presence of a warder. I remember sending a statement to the Governor. Before doing so I had not had any private interview with you. When the police came to my house on Saturday I was outside chopping wood. Benjamin spoke to me and said, " Good morning; " at the same time he put his hand in his pocket and said, " Here I have a search-warrant to search your house for a pocket-book that was stolen from a man that was killed last night." I said, " All right, sir, you can go and search as much as you like." Mr. Thomson passed from behind Benjamin at the time. I did not know then he was Mr. Thomson. Then he said, " Eead that over to him." The man, Mr. Benjamin, did so. After he had finished he said, "March on." I said, "All right." We went into the kitchen. When we were in I said to my missus—she was close to the fire—"The police are going to search the house." Ido not know if she gave me an answer or not. Mr. Campbell was with them. I have known him this last twelve or fifteen months. Mr. Thomson said to Benjamin, " Search him first." Benjamin did so, and took everything out of my pockets and put them on the table. I was in the kitchen. In fact, he took a little penknife out of my pocket, and I have not seen it from that day to this. It was not produced at the trial. A bit of the handle was broken. They took it from my trousers pocket. After this Benjamin said, " This place is getting rather dark ; let us go outside, we can see better." We went out in the back yard. Benjamin looked at my boots, and all over my clothes. He looked at my hands as well. Then he asked me if I was wearing my clothes the day before. I said, " Yes, and a week before." He asked me if my wife had washed my clothes that day. I told him I did not know. It was true I had worn the same clothes the day before,