I.—3a

9

140. Is that what you do yourself ?—Yes ; sometimes I make statements on oath myself. The Chairman : I cannot see the bearing of this at all. Mr. Lundon: He said in a sneering sort of way that what I say I would swear to. Of course there is nothing in it. I want to show The Chairman : Ido not see what bearing it has on the case. Mr. Lundon : To test the credibility of his evidence, and the credibility of my evidence when it comes before the Committee. Mr. W. Kelly : You may have taken him up wrong ; he may have meant that anything you said you would stand to. 141. Hon. Mr. Carroll (to witness).] Did you sign any document in Cochrane's office ?—I do not wish to prevaricate, or tell an untruth ; but I am certainly in ignorance of having signed any document there. I had no opportunity of signing any document. 142. You can only remember signing one document in Millar's office, or did you sign more than one ?—I only remember signing the one document in the post-office. 143. Perhaps you will understand it better this way : You remember only signing your name once ?—Yes, I only remember signing once ; that is, when I signed for the money. 144. Would it be the document that you were signing for the money at that time ?—I cannot say whether that was the document, because Ido not remember the colour of the paper. [Deed and receipt produced.] 145. Do you remember signing a deed, or seeing that document) before at any time ?—I do not remember ever having seen that document before. I believe the document I signed was coloured paper. I appear to have signed that document twice. Mr. W. Kelly : Do I understand that he paid an amount to Mr. Lundon under that sale ? The Chairman : No. Mr. W. Kelly : He states in his petition that the land was sold by them through Mr. Lundon. The Chairman: He says he never gave Mr. Lundon authority to act as their agent for the sale of this land. 146. Mr.W. Kelly.] Does he say that after seeing the Maori and the English documents? (To witness) : After seeing those documents, do you still state that Mr. Lundon was not authorised to act as your agent?—l still adhere to my statement that I never remember having signed an authority for Mr. Lundon to act for us ; but now this authority has been produced, it appears I have signed it. I cannot remember the circumstances under which I signed it—under which I placed my name to it. 147. The Chairman.] Is that your signature to the deed?— Yes. 148. Mr. W. Kelly. ] You state that you do not remember signing that deed?—l do not remember signing this deed. 149. Hon. Mr. Mitohelson.] Do you remember signing a deed ?—I remember signing some sort of document when I received the money. I cannot say whether that is the document or not. 150. But you admit that that is your signature?— Yes, that is my signature. 151. Mr. W. Kelly.] What sort of an opinion do you hold of Mr. Cochrane? —He is not altogether a trustworthy person. 152. If Mr. Cochrane states that these documents were interpreted to you, and that you signed them in his presence, would you believe that ? —I would not admit that he was correct, for if he did explain these matters fully to me I would have remembered it on the present occasion. 153. There is one thing quite against you. You state that you can read and write, and that you have signed a Maori document. You say you would not sign a Maori document without reading it. Did you read over the document authorising Mr. Lundon to act as agent before you signed it ?—I believe I never read over that document. 154. Hon. Mr. Mitchelson.] You have stated several times, in cross-examination by Mr. Lundon, that when Mr. Lundon introduced you to Cochrane's office after his arrival, the only document you saw was that purporting to be a list of those who had already sold ?—Yes, that is what I have stated. 155. You have persisted in that statement all through your evidence?— Yes; that was the only document read over to me, and the reason that it was read over was on account of my demanding a larger sum. This document was then read over to show that the others had agreed to a smaller amount than I was asking for. 156. Hon. Mr. Caclman.] You say you do not remember signing a deed. How many times did you sign at the post-office—how many papers did you sign there?—l do not know. 157. Did you sign more than one? —I do not remember whether I signed more than one. I think only one; I believe only one. 158. I want you to think over this carefully, because it is the last question I will ask you before Igo away?—l only remember signing once—one document. 159. It was at the post-office you received your money ?—Yes, it was laid down on the table and taken by Mr. Lundon. 160. Hon. Mr. Carroll.] Was it placed in your hand?—lt was laid down on the table and taken by Mr. Lundon. 161. You did not touch it at all ?—My hand never touched it. 162. Mr. W. Kelly.] You say you were paid the money in cheques by Mr. Millar at the postoffice, and when they were received into your hands Mr. Lundon asked you to give them to him?— I cannot speak as to how the man who wrote that petition received his money. I only say that in my own case the money was not placed in my hand, or did I ever touch it. Heeewini te Toko examined. 163. The Chairman.] Did you write out this petition?—lt was Hone Papahia who wrote it, but I dictated it. I took part in composing it. 2—l. 3a.