I.—7b.

The Hon. Mr. Ward moved, That, before the communication was read, he desired to call attention to the notice of motion given in the House by Mr. G. Hutchison in reference to the debentures, and which appears on a Supplementary Order Paper No. 94. He desired to ask the Chairman if it was not contrary to the Standing Orders for such a notice of motion to be given, derived from information obtained at yesterday's meeting of the Committee, and before the matter had been reported to the House. Mr. G. Hutchison admitted it was from what he had learned yesterday that he had given the notice of motion referred to. The Chairman stated that he thought Mr. G. Hutchison's action was against the Standing Orders, and it was most inconvenient to the Committee. The Hon. Mr. Seddon moved, That the Chairman consult Mr. Speaker in reference to the question raised by Hon. Mr. Ward. Upon the question being put, a division was called for, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, s.—Hon. Mr. Larnach, Mr. Montgomery, Hon. Mr. Seddon, Mr. T. Thompson, Hon. Mr. Ward. Noes, 4.—Mr. G. Hutchison, Mr. Lang, Dr. Newman, Hon. Sir R. Stout. So it passed in the affirmative. Motion carried. The Hon. Sir R. Stout moved, That Mr. FitzGerald's memorandum be read. The Hon. Mr. Seddon moved, by way of amendment, to strike out all the words after " That," and insert in lieu thereof the words, " before any other proceedings are taken the Committee adjourn until the opinion of Mr. Speaker is taken by the Chairman on the question raised by the Hon. Mr. Ward." Upon the amendment being put, a division was called for, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 6.—Mr. Guinness, Mr. McGowan, Mr. Montgomery, Hon. Mr. Seddon, Mr. T. Thompson, Hon. Mr. Ward. Noes-, G. Hutchison, Mr. Lang, Hon. Mr. Larnach, Dr. Newman, Hon. Sir R. Stout. . So it passed in the affirmative. Amendment agreed to. The Committee adjourned accordingly.

Monday, 28th October, 1895. Present : Hon. Mr. Larnach (Chairman), Mr. G. Hutchison, Mr. Lang, Mr. T. Mackenzie, Mr. McGowan, Mr. Montgomery, Dr. Newman, Hon. Sir R. Stout, Mr. Tanner, Mr. T. Thompson, Hon. Mr. Ward. The minutes of the previous meeting read and confirmed. Order of reference of the 26th October, 1895, read by the Clerk. The Clerk read a memorandum from the Controller and Auditor-General dated 24th October, 1895. The Chairman said: I have to report, in accordance with instructions from the Committee at its last sitting, the matter of the notice of motion of Mr. G. Hutchison was brought by me before the Speaker, and I was directed by him to bring the matter before the House. He stated that in his opinion the action of the member for Patea was a breach of the privileges of the House. In accordance therewith it was brought before the House, and by a vote taken it was declared to be a breach of privilege. Mr. J. B. Heywood was then admitted, and continued his statement, which was taken down by the reporter. During Mr. Heywood's examination the Hon. Mr. Ward asked a question as to the issue of debentures against £145,400, and if it was in accordance with law as advised by the Crown Law Officers. The Hon. Sir R. Stout objected, unless the document giving the legal opinion was produced. The Chairman ruled that the question was permissible, as this Committee was allowed greater freedom in the matter of taking evidence than was allowed in a Court of law. The Hon. Mr. Ward then waived asking Mr. Heywood the question. The Hon. Sir R. Stout moved, That strangers withdraw, in order that the following motion be discussed: "That it is improper to ask for the contents of a written document without producing it." Mr. McGowan asked if the Hon. Sir R. Stout could put that question, as the Hon. Mr. Ward had waived asking the question of Mr. Heywood. The Chairman ruled that the Hon. Sir R. Stout's motion could not be put. Later on, Dr. Newman asked if Mr. Gavin, Assistant Controller and Auditor, had given his assent in writing to the issue of the debentures for £145,400. The Hon. Mr. Ward called attention to Dr. Newman asking the question without the document being produced. The Hon. Sir R. Stout objected, unless the document showing the assent was produced. The Chairman ruled Dr. Newman in order in asking the question. Later on, the Hon. Sir R. Stout asked, Was the question ever asked of the Law Advisers as to whether the accretions of past years could be seized ? The Hon. Mr. Ward objected to the expression " seized," and the Hon. Sir R. Stout substituted " issued as debentures " in place of " seized."

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