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233. And mining investors in London would think these contrary to their interests ?—Yes. 234. You lay special emphasis on the word "think." You will agree, I think, that if misrepresentations are made in the public Press, and are sent Home by persons affected, an erroneous impression may mislead the people in London ?—Yes ; but the Bill itself has reached London now, and it would be easy to ascertain precisely what the mining people there thought of it from the AgentGeneral. They have the Bill by post; it has been circulated about six weeks, and I know it is Home. 235. Do you meet many persons in Auckland in favour of the Bill—that is to say, of the labour or mining community—apart from the speculative interest ?—Perhaps I am not in such a good position to see them as if I were at the Thames. I know, myself, that a good many persons whom I have heard object to the company working the ground they own are speculators pure and simple. At the present time the method is somewhat like this : a man goes to the Thames, puts in four pegs, comes to Auckland, deposits the. money for survey, and then a syndicate is formed to send the ground to London for sale. He has six months to play upon the survey, and during that time he floats a syndicate, and that syndicate sends the mine to London. It is amongst this class I find the strongest opinion in favour of the Bill. 236. Mr. Fraser.] Those most in favour of the Bill are speculators ?—Yes. 237. Wild-cat speculators?— Yes. Mr. B. McKenzie : That does not apply to the Anglo-Continental. 238. Mr. o'Began.} Can you give us, approximately, an idea of how much land is being worked under the freehold tenure ?—No. There is on the West Coast of the South Island, Taitapu, a large block, and there is what is known at Coromandel as William Aitken's block. There is, I may remark, a difference in the position of various blocks on the Thames Peninsula. In some cases the right to mine was ceded to the Government before the freeholds were obtained. The freeholds that were obtained on blocks over which the right to mine had been ceded are in a different position to those on the eastern side of the water-shed, which have never been ceded to the Crown. 239. Then I take it that the largest objection to this Bill is from the Kauri Timber Company ? —They are chiefly interested, but, of course, others are largely interested. 240. Mr. B. McKenzie.] Assuming that the Government resumed these lands, do you think investors would speculate in them as ordinary Crown lands ?—I believe if the Bill were passed it would be contested in every possible form. What those would be Ido not know. 241. Do you think investors would speculate?—l think investors would be so staggered by the act of resumption that they would be inclined to be shy. 242. Can you give us any reason why the Government should not resume land for mining? — The distinction is this: They give full value for land taken for settlement. For this land, as mining land, I suppose you would get for it in London from £20 to £30 per acre ; but if it is cleared and denuded of kauri the surface-value is not worth thirty pence. 243. Hon. Mr. Cadman.] You said the land would not be worth thirty pence denuded of timber ? I said it might be saleable for £30 an acre if it were known to contain a reef ; but for surface-value I do not think it would be worth more than as many pence. 244. If I held a lease of land on the Peninsula for the purpose of removing the timber, when the timber is gone what would you estimate the value of my lease to run on the Thames Goldfield surface-value ?—That would be somewhat complicated. For instance, at the present time it would be worth very little ; but there is this to be considered: Suppose that land was mining land, and I held a lease for fifty years ; a township might be wanted on that land, and I consider if the Government are going to take it away that that should be an element in the compensation. 245. That is, after your timber is removed ? —Yes ; it is still your property till the expiry of the lease. 246. Although your lease only gives you the right to remove your timber ? —But I was speaking of an ordinary lease" A timber lease is a different case. 247. I am referring to what is known as timber leases, and what I want to ask you is this : After the timber is removed, at what would you value my interest ?—I understand that I have a lease for fifty years ; I remove the timber in ten years. I do not think it would be right to take the land, and so take away my rights, if a township were likely to be wanted. I would have_ no right to mine ; but I would still have the right to prevent any building on the land. But that is a fair subject for discussion. Of course, leases stand in a different category to freehold lands. 248. If you held a lease for fifty years, and you denuded the land of timber in ten years, would you think it would be worth while to pay rates and taxes for forty years ?—I would consider that question, and if I saw the chance of a mining township being required I would stick to the land, but if I saw no chance I would say to the Government that I was willing to hand it over. 249. Then your estimate of the value for the forty years would be based on the off-chance of a township ?—Yes. 250. You mentioned that William Aitken had been mining on freehold land at Coromandel. From your own knowledge, can you say what he has done in the last twenty years ?—I understand he has not done much, but he told me a few days ago that arrangements had been made to work it thoroughly. 251. Are you aware that the right to mine on that land has been questioned by the Government ? Yes. Mr. Aitken contends that he is not within the schedule of the Act, for he got his title in 1865, and the Validation Act was not passed till 1869, and he claims also that the agreement made with the Natives does not affect his land. 252. From your knowledge of the goldfields at the Thames, has there not been anxiety evinced for many years to mine on the lands held in one form or another by timber companies, which are now held by the Kauri Timber Company ?—There has always been a desire that the whole peninsula should be at command. 253. Do you think it is wrong to resume freehold land for mining purposes ? —Yes, I think it is wrong and impolitic to resume freehold land for mining purposes.