I.—4a

30

23. But in the colony you cannot get capital to any amount ?—ln all the cases I know of, if they want for money they can have it locally. 24. Where ?—We have it from all parts. 25. But why should a million and a half of money be brought from outside the colony if you have as much as you require ?—The answer to that would be that in some cases we have heavy mining machinery to put on the ground ; this would require more money, perhaps, than you could get in the colony. 26. Do you think that, if this legislation passes, it will prevent that capital coming to the colony ? —No ; I do not see why it should. 27. Would security of title have any effect in the same direction ?—I do not take it so in regard to this Act. It is not stricter than the law in Victoria ;itis no worse than it is there. 28. Mr. B. McKenzie.] How many men are there in your union ? —One thousand seven hundred, and there will be three thousand before three months. 29. Was it at a public meeting that that resolution was passed ; were they unanimous ?—Yes ; it was carried unanimously. We talked over it for a considerable time. 30. Mr. Allen.] You say that Tairua is not Crown land?—So far as I know, it is Kauri Timber Company's leasehold. It will revert to the Natives or the Crown when the lease expires. 31. Is it not freehold ?—lt is leasehold ground. 32. Ido not see that?—l do not know of any freeholds till you go over to the boat-harbour. They have freeholds over there, but this land will revert to the Crown, or to the Natives, or to the Crown when the lease expires. 33. It might be Crown land or Native land?—lt is under lease to the Timber Company. 34. lam not talking about a lease, lam talking about the freehold ? —lt is leased. 35. You say that twenty-seven years ago—in 1869—you discovered gold at Whangapoua. Who held the freehold in 1869?— I do not know. There were timber rights there, but no objection was made to mining on the block. I do not know anything about a leasehold then; I think it was held by one Harris or Craig. .36, You say there is not a stick of kauri on Whangapoua now? —Not on the part that I refer to. 37. I understood you to say there was not any on the block?—On one portion, going towards Opitunui, there is kauri, but this portion is completely cut out, and has been for years. 38. You said the " unemployed " difficulty would be wiped out if this legislation passed. Is there any " unemployed " difficulty in Auckland now?—No ; not in my part. 39. It is difficult to get miners?—No, we can get them. 40. Are all those claims manned up to labour conditions? —So far as I can see, they are bound up in accordance with the orders of the Warden's Court. 41. Do you mean that he has relaxed the labour conditions? —No; he has given protection to a number of mines. 42. But if that protection has gone by, are there enough men to man the claims ? —There is not; no doubt about that. 43. You have said that there are more mines floated in the colony than in England?— Yes. 44. How many mines floated in Auckland are likely to succeed? —I have not been through the ground to see. 45. Are there many companies not likely to be a success ? —That is what no born man can answer. They say that no miner can see a foot beyond the point of his pick ;he might work for long and get nothing, whereas if he went a foot further he might have been a rich man. 46. Do you think that in the case of most of the companies there now their prospecting claims are likely to turn out successfully ?—I believe that a great number will be successful. 47. Are there no " wild cats " among them ?—Not a shadow of a doubt about it; but that you will always have. 48. There area number of claims you say with from £1,000 to £1,500 of capital; do you consider that sufficient? —It is sufficient to open them up and develop them to a certain extent. 49. After they are opened up and developed will they need more capital ?—Yes. 50. You think that capital will be found in New Zealand ?—The shareholders will find it; they will have to pay the calls. If they are treated properly there will be no difficulty in paying the calls ; there would be no trouble about that. 51. You think there would be no difficulty in paying calls? —I know of companies doing a great deal of work, and the shareholders have no anxiety about calls. 52. You say that no prospector would work under the Timber Company's conditions? —Distinctly. 53. Have you seen any one that is working under the company's conditions?— Not that I am aware of. 53a. Do you know the ground?— Yes; both the blocks referred to. 54. There have been miners there ?—Yes; I know some that have been prospecting there. 55. On this same ground ?—Yes; on that same ground. 56. Did they come there under the company's conditions ?—No; certainly not. 57. We have it in evidence that several have gone there under the company's conditions?—So far as I know, in connection with that, the Timber Company have done no prospecting. Nobody has been out taking areas under their rules. Somebody may have been there under those conditions, but lam not aware of it. I know, however, that men have been there prospecting, and have discovered payable lodes. I cannot say if the company knows where this prospect is. 58. Are you aware that the company have set aside £60,000 for prospecting on their freehold estates ? —I cannot tell what they have done. 59. If the passing of this legislation would, in the opinion of English capitalists, make their title insecure and drive out English capital, would you think it advisable to pass such legislation as