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92. Mr. Fisher.] Is it not a fact, in accordance with these rules, that the Lyttelton Lumpers and Wharf-labourers have entered into a compact with the Canterbury Stevedoring Association ? — Yes ; but the Chairman said, " Must a man belong to this association to get work in Lyttelton?" 93. Hon. Major Steward.] After paying your sick benefits you have a balance at the end of the year: what is done with it? —It is always carried forward; we never divide. These last four months have been very unfortunate for us; we have had six all the time on the sick-list. That means £3 15s. a week ; and when you are only receiving Is. 4d. per month it soon goes. Then, 4d. a month goes to the keeper of the shed, which only leaves a margin of Is. 94. How many years has the association been in operation ?—Six years. 95. And the total balance to credit is £50?— Yes. Apart from the sick-pay, if a member dies we make the widow a present of £10 or £20. 96. The Chairman.] Where does the subsidy of the Stevedoring Association show on this balance-sheet?—lt does not show, because this is for six months. It is in the balance-sheet before that, and will be in the ensuing balance-sheet. 97. Hon. Major Steward.] It appears that your revenue at the present rate just about meets your charges ?—Just about that. 98. Your members contribute £150 in the year and the Stevedores' Association contributes £25—that is, one-sixth ; yet the governing body consists of a certain number of persons, onehalf of whom are appointed by the Stevedores' Association, plus some other officer, who has a casting-vote; so that the body which contributes one-sixth of the revenue has rather more than a half of the representation ?—There are five of them to four of us. 99. Does that strike you as being a fair adjustment of the representation?—Of course, they do not interfere with us in working the association. 100. Could they not ?—lt has not been done. 101. Can they not if they wish ? —Well, five can always beat four. 102. Mr. Fisher.] W T hat is the Canterbury Stevedoring Association ?—They are merchants. 103. Hon. Major Steward.] So, in return for one-sixth of the revenue, these merchants have the power of controlling the whole business of the association?— Yes. 104. -The-Chairman.] Eule 4 says, " No workman shall be eligible for membership who is a member of any union not affiliated with this association": can you tell us which unions are affiliated with this association ?—Only one I know of —the Lyttelton Wharf-labourers. They work about the wharves, and several of their members belong to our association. Ido not know if there is anything against them working with us. 105. Hon. Major Steward.] Would a member of the Seamen's Union be eligible to join your association?—l think so. 106. Is the Seamen's Union affiliated with this association ?—No. 107. The Chairman.] Eule 7 says, "Workmen wishing to join this association shall send in their names to the secretary of the Canterbury Stevedoring Association, who shall submit the same to the committee, and the latter body shall elect or reject at discretion." You have told us that the Stevedoring Association, if they choose to exercise it, have already the preponderance of influence on the committee, so it would be impossible for a workman to join the association if the Canterbury Stevedoring Association did not wish it ?—They have never done such a thing yet. 108. Why do you have it in the rules ?—I do not know anything about that. I know if any man wants to join the association as a working member he goes to the secretary in port of the Canterbury Stevedoring Association, and if the latter thinks he is eligible he sends him down to me, or whoever is secretary of the association, and I bring it before the committee, and the committee elects him or rejects him. 109. If they reject a man he is not able to get any wharf-lumping work ?—lf they reject him he is not a member of the association. 110. And until all the members of the association are employed he is not able to get any work? —Not that particular line of work. 111. Hon. Major Steward.] You say, "If the secretary thinks him eligible " : what is the precise meaning of that ?—lf he thinks he is fit for going on board ship. . 112. Do you mean physically capable ? —Yes. 113. The Chairman.] Eule 24 says, "Any member of this association who may at any time consider himself bullied, abused, or otherwise menaced, or who may be ' knocked off work ' without, in his opinion, just cause by any employer, officer, manager, or foreman, shall quietly submit thereto, and shall place his grievance before the committee, who shall at once investigate the case and deal with it as they may decide." Do you remember any such cases?—l do. : 114. Can you tell us the result?— The committee meet as a body, and if the man's ease is clear, and they think he has good grounds for complaint, they take the matter before the Canterbury Stevedoring Association, and then they reprimand the offender for such conduct, and try to put a, stop to it. 115. Mr. Fisher.] Is not this the fact as stated in your rules: that the Canterbury Stevedoring Association wholly controls the Lyttelton Lumpers' and Wharf-labourers' Association ?— Well, yes, I suppose they do. Joseph Smart was examined on oath. i 116. The Chairman.] What is your occupation ? —I am a wharf-labourer at Lyttelton. 117. Are you a member of the Lyttelton Lumpers' and Wharf-labourers' Association ?—-I have been a member ; I am an ex-member at present. 118. Can you tell us as briefly as possible why you left the society? —I will have to go back to the date of the strike in 1890. As the Commission is probably aware, the labour was all disorganized, and I considered it was a very good thing to form an association at the time. I was a member of it for some five or six years.