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102 In fixing their pay, what class of men do you consider they should run side by side with as regards pay?— Well, I should think, very much on the same lines as the present warders Wd. Colonel Pitt.] I think the Chairman means in ordinary life ?—I should say they should all earn trom 6s. to 7s. a day. 104. The Chairman.] What I want to get at this this: whether you consider the rate of pay ot the police should be the same as that of an ordinary labourer, or whether it should be equal to that ot skilled labour, or how would you rate it?—Oh, I should say ordinary labour. Of course they have many advantages. For instance, in a place like Wellington their mess was, when I had °X % f f da /rI S : t0 1S - 4d - They et three 8° od meals a da y for that > and they get light and fuel and lodging for nothing—that is, those who are single men 105. foil say it should be at the rate of an ordinary labourer with the advantages of free quarters, light, lodging, cheap mess, and so on?-Yes. There was a question raised about the strength of the Force. The strength was shown in 1886 as 494, and in 1896 as 484, showing a decrease ot 10, with a large increase of population. Now, if we come to the next year, 1897 °we fand an increase there of 32 during that year. Now, that is accounted for because of the boom in Auckland We had to open stations on the goldfields on account of the big boom; and also on account ot the influx of people there were increases elsewhere. lam trying to show this : that the ponce were not unnecessarily decreased. The comparison of ten years is no criterion at all They had not got bicycles ten years ago. _ 106. Colonel Pitt.] Who had not ?—Nobody; the general public. The police in Christchurch tor instance, have now to my certain knowledge over 20 bicycles of their own private property Iney carry out portion of their duties on them. 107. The Chairman.] Well, I suppose they are taking the place of the troop horses, because one year we had 119 troop horses?— You cannot do that, because we have to get troop horses in places where they cannot get bicycles. 108. Mr. Poynton.] But then the thief gets a bicycle too ?—Oh, Ido not think it has come tio tnat. 109 The Chairman.] Please explain what facility there is for the use of the bicycle ?—A man can go three miles in ten minutes instead of its taking him three-quarters of an hour. 110. Whengoing to serve summonses ?—Yes, or anything in connection with his duty. What 1 want to show is that the whole state of living has altered altogether. The telephone system was not in vogue ten years ago in the way it is now. 111. You wish to show that the police are more efficient owing to mechanical appliances?— ymte so. rj^ 112. A given number of men can do more at the present time than they could ten years ? —yuite so. The telephone alone is an immense help, and so is the bicycle. 113. Colonel Pitt.] But it does not do beat duty ?—Oh no. And then, in addition to that, I would point out—and I think the Year-book bears me out—that there has been a steady decrease ot crime. J 114. Mr. Poynton.] Say, for the last ten years?— Say, for the last ten years. 115. The Chairman.] When you say " reduction of crime " do you mean any particular class oi crime, or do you mean generally ?—The general criminal returns ; but it is not to be wondered at because we all know when the goldfields broke out the riff-raff of society came here. You have not your bullivans and your Burgesses and those people now.. Those people have died out or have gone somewhere else, and the criminals that come to New Zealand now are few and far between mv \} , , Say , there has been a fallin g-°ff in the returns of crime during the last ten years?'— The Year-book will show that. 117. In face of the increase of population?— Yes. There will be an increase this year- but what is it? A hundred and five Maoris shut up in gaol because they ploughed someone's land lnat will make a big increase in my prison returns this year. t +V,- 1 ! 8- Go }° ml Pitt -] Do y° u tmnk that burglaries have decreased during the last ten years?— 1 think, perhaps, they have increased this year, because they ran rampant in Auckland for a short time. 119. During the last two or three years they hare not increased ?—No; I do not think so. New Zealand is the least of all, except South Australia, in regard to apprehensions on summonses and commitments, according to the Year-book for 1897, page 336. 120. The Chairman.] I understand you to be expressing the opinion, although not in direct words, that in this colony we do not require the same numerical strength of police in proportion to population as is required in other colonies ?—That is my decided opinion. 121. Colonel Pitt.] Is there any reason why the police in New Zealand should be paid less than m the other colonies ?—No; Ido not think so. Perhaps lam hardly competent to give an opinion. I have not been to any of the other colonies, and Ido not know what the rate of living is there. It may be more expensive living for all I know. 122. The Chairman.] Is there anything further you can tell us at this stage ?—I may mention that when I took charge I found when reports against constables were brought to and heard by Inspectors, the constables were not always told what was in those reports; and if they were punished or admonished, or whatever it might be, they were not told whether it would be in their defaulter's sheet or not. The matter came up when these promotions for seven years' service without an entry in their defaulter's sheet came on. Men stated they thought they had clean defaulters' sheets; and when this matter came up it was found they had two or three entries against them, and they said they were never told of these entries. I gave strict orders that a man was to see a report against him, and given a chance of making his defence; and then he was to be told whether the entry was to stand against him or not. Then, in the matter of rewards, there is a Police Reward Fund, standing, I think, with a credit of £2,000, made up from fines.

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