147

H.—2

496. Did you see them carry bags and bottles ?—ln many instances they had implements or some conveniences. 497. You did not tell the police ?—1 was not told to do so. 498. Do you remember whether any of the visitors, either before going in or after coming out, appeared to be under the influence of liquor?— Yes, decidedly. Sometimes I was sorry to see women. They were none the steadier for their refreshment. 499. You did not consider, under the circumstances, you were called upon to communicate with the police ; they could get the information as you got it yourself ?—Just so. It was not with the intention of hiding information from the police, but we understood it was being collected for a specific purpose—namely, for a general estimate. 500. Have you made any systematic effort to collect information from that date ?—-Not since 1894. 501. What hotel did you watch in 1894 ?—I believe it was the New Zealander Hotel in Manners Street. 502. Do you remember the date ? —I cannot. 503. Was it a Sunday ?—Yes. 504. Who was with you ?—Mr. Weston. 505. You were collecting information for a similar purpose? —Yes. I made notes myself on that day. 506. What was the result of your observations on that date ?—I started about 7.30 o'clock in the morning and finished about 7at night, and I saw about 124 people go into the hotel. Of course, the totals here do not coincide with the numbers we saw, because in the totals afterwards, where we found that the descriptions were not very accurate, they were marked off so as not to err on the side of exaggeration. 507. So you think you saw more go in than you have recorded ?—Yes. 508. Why, because there is a pretty theory to the effect that prohibitionists do exaggerate sometimes ?—I had not that idea at all. I thought the thing was deplorable, and I was very careful not to make an over-estimate. 509. Have you any idea where Mr. Weston is now ?—He is in Wellington. 510. Is he alive ?—I believe so. 511. The Chairman.] What month in 1894 was this?—l cannot remember. It is some time ago now, and the object sought was gained when we obtained the information. 512. Mr. Tunbridge.] Which door in the New Zealander were they going in and out of?— Well, I cannot state exactly. Ido not think it was the front door of the public bar. In fact, I am pretty certain that was closed. They went in at the side door, where there is a bit of a brick embankment, down a right-of-way. That I took to be the family or private entrance. But, then, I am not sure as to the distance. There was another door which, I think, led into the family part. 513. Which door were the people going in and out using?— There were three ways by which the people disappeared from my view. 514. The Chairman.] Were you in the lane or in Manners Street ?—I was fairly opposite the hotel in Manners Street. 515. Could you see down the lane ?—Yes, because from the place from which I viewed this locality, I could see both sides. 516. Mr. Tunbridge.] In making your calculation, did you include all the people who disappeared from your view in either of these places ?—Yes. When I was watching, if I was not certain whether any of the people I saw passed into the hotel, or passed out of view across the road, then I did not put them down. All I saw going into these doors I put down. 517. That includes all doors in the street, and the right-of-way to the back premises?— Yes. 518. Do you know if there is a public urinal in there ?—I think there is. And, for all you know, the people who went through might have gone to the urinal only, and come out again ? —I do not know, of course. Sometimes there are instances in which you cannot positively form an opinion, but your own observations will give you a very clear idea of what is going on. 519. Would there be a pretty good proportion of the 124 going that way ?—Probably it was near church-times when they went there. 520. Did you know any of the people who went in ? —Yes, I knew several of them. 521. Do you know them by name?— Yes. 522. Can you give their names ? —I could, but for their sakes I would rather not give their names. Of course, Ido not wish to hide any information, because lam not afraid of what I have done. If folks break the law, they must take the consequences. 523. Briefly, are you able to say that there was a person admitted to that hotel that day who did not express to the people in charge that he was not a bond fide traveller or lodger ?— lam not able to answer that question, beyond the fact that I saw them go in; because, whatever my impressions were as to their intentions in entering the place, that is my business, I cannot prove that they obtained what I think they went in for. 524. Are you able to say whether they described themselves as bond fide travellers?— They must have travelled a jolly long distance, through some barbed-wire fences, to judge by their appearance. They were ragged in deportment and apparel. 525. Did any of the people going into the hotel carry kits ?—They were carrying all kinds of parcels, and some of them were not at all backward in showing that they were carrying bottles. They did not seem to mind the fact that they were carrying kits, or bottles, or jugs, or anything of a carrying capacity, and were not at all backward in showing what the contents were. 526. What is your opinion about Sunday trading in the city at the present time ?—Perhaps that is rather vague.