162

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45. Colonel Pitt.] Have the police formulated any scheme amongst themselves for a pension scheme ; you said they would work out a scheme of their own if they got decent pay ?—No. They think that any attempt to have a pension scheme would be attended by nothing but failure. 46 They have attempted no scheme of their own yet ? —No, not that I am aware of. 47~ Do you think they would successfully formulate a scheme without having a lump sum of money to start with ?—No, they have no hope whatever. There is the Bank of New Zealand pension fund that was endowed with £25,000 by the bank at its foundation, and now it is a burden on the whole staff. In the face of this sort of thing the men do not see that a pension scheme would work at all, or give satisfaction. . 48 lam speaking of the scheme you say the police would start for themselves >— lhat is to say, if a man had decent pay he would be able to save something and make ready for a time when he would probably want it. 49. It would be individual saving, but no general scheme ?—Yes. 50 The Chairman.] You say you yourself have no personal grievance of any kind. Can you tell us of any dissatisfaction existing in the Force as to any other matters m connection with position ? The ordinary pay, you say, is not sufficient to enable you to provide for a pension scheme?—l do not consider the pay sufficient. 51. What is the present pay?—My present pay is 7s. 6d. per day. I work on an average between nine and ten hours a day, taking all the year round. 52 Is that the pay of a second-class constable all round ?—Yes ; but with long-service pay it would mean perhaps Bs. or Bs. 6d. per day. There are men junior to me in the service who are drawing more pay than I am. .... . ~ 53 You mean junior in the service of the colony ?—They might not be junior to me m the service of the colony, but junior to me in rank. Perhaps their promotion is of later date than name and they are junior to me in rank although not in service, and they draw Is. per day more than 1 do, through the long-service arrangement. . 55. You want something more in the way of daily pay, to provide for a pension fund.- , —Xes. 56. You think 7s. 6d. is not sufficient for the class of work you have to do ?—Certainly not. 57. Do you live in barracks? —Yes. 58. What are the barrack charges ?—From Is. 6d. to Is. 9d. for food alone. Then we have to provide for clothing, and one summer on the wharf will destroy a suit of uniform. 59. What do you estimate uniform costs you a year ?—I reckon with care one suit a year 60. What does it cost you to keep yourself in uniform ?—Taking into consideration boots, from 61. One witness told us, I think, that it came to about £8, taking into consideration overcoat, two pairs of trousers, and boots ?—I have not taken waterproof coat into consideration. 62. Taking these into consideration, does £8 a year cover the expenses of uniform, &c. ?—From 63. Then, uniform and living costs you about £50 a year, out of your present pay of 7s. 6d. a ay 64 Tell me why you think the pay is below what it should be ?—An ordinary labourer gets Is. an hour and overtime at the rate of Is. 6d. If they are permanently employed by the Harbour Board the Board will permit them to insure their lives for a sum up to £400, and will pay hall the premiums. , . 65. Taking that as a basis for the wharf labourer, you think a constable s pay of 7s. bd. a day is low ?—lt is low, considering the unpleasant nature of the work he has to do; and any man with a strong constitution can make a labourer in seven days. It has taken me nine years, with good luck, to make a second-class constable. I do not think I am well paid by any means compared with the other Forces. . _ 66 Can you call our attention to the pay of any Force that is better paid ?—Yes ; the pay of the Sydney police is 7s. a day to start with, and after twelve months' service you get Is. a day rise, and you have your uniform found. 67. Anything else found them ?—I cannot say. _ 68. Now, do you know any other colony where the pay is better? —I believe m all the Australian Colonies the men are paid better than they are in the New Zealand Police Force. I may state the New South Wales police get a shilling a day house-allowance for married men 69. Do married men get house-allowance here ?—None whatever, except sergeants and noncommissioned officers. , 70. It has been mentioned to us that the handcuffs and batons you use in the iiorce are not satisfactory ; have you anything to say about them ?—The baton is satisfactory, but that style of handcuff has been obsolete for years. I find this particularly in the duty I have to do on the wharf. You get a violent prisoner with big wrists and you cannot get the handcuffs on._ Then there is the other way about: if you get a man with small wrists they are too large for him, and easily slip. ,«,.., 71. Have you seen better ?—Yes; the American style of handcuff is a long way superior to ours. You can make them fit the wrist of any man, no matter how small or large it is. 72. It is suggested that the batons are too heavy, and that you are afraid to use them ?— Some of them are. 73. Have you seen any other?— No. 74. With regard to batons, you do not say much ?—No. _ 75. Now, I want you to remember that we are hearing this from you as the voice of the Force, and you express so far as you can your sentiment, and distinguish it if you think you differ from the feeling of the Force generally. Now, I am going to ask you something about the franchise. _ For some years the members of the Force have been allowed to vote, and I want to know your opinion