i:-3a,

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put in all sorts of conditions, who would draw up those leases, and so forth ?—Oh, that would be quite easy. It would be done this way : when this Bill comes before the House, and comes to be discussed, let a clause be inserted, or a provision be inserted in this Bill, providing for the drawingup of a printed form of lease, which shall be the form used in all cases, and then there will be no trouble at all in regard to leases. 26. But supposing there was timber on the land and you required a special covenant with regard to the rights, permitting, we might say, the tenant to take some portion of it and to pay a royalty. And supposing, again, it is necessary to put a covenant in the lease binding the tenant down to improve so many acres a year —to expend so much. And, again, supposing there is an agreement with Natives to occupy a percentage of that block, we will say 50 acres, for cultivation, but, owing to the nature of the soil, cultivation cannot be carried on for more than a certain length of time at one place, and the lessees wish to shift—you would require a clause in the lease for that. This could not all be put into a form ?—Oh, yes, it could. That could all be done when the question of discussing the forms that it would be necessary to adopt would be gone into. 27. Then, he thinks that a Council composed entirely of Maoris would be able to administer such a law more efficiently than a Council associated with which were men—Government officers, or men specially qualified to help them to work out an Act?—l think so, because, after all, it would not be left for pakehas to make laws or rules ; the Parliament would do that. 28. But that would impose no restrictions on their actions ? —Yes; they would have rules and regulations for their guidance, which would confine them to certain lines of action. 29. Well, we will now come to another point he brought out. Of course, he is agreeable that all the operations of this Council would have to be reported to Parliament every year?— Yes. 30. Of course there would not be a clerk to do that ?—Oh no ; there are interpreters to do that. 31. Then, he said that this Council should have power to judge cases—ordinary civil cases— the same as in the ordinary Courts, arising or confined solely between one Maori and another ?— y es . 32. Would it not be better to appoint Natives in certain districts as assessors to sit with the Stipendiary Magistrate, on those cases confined to Maoris or questions in dispute between Maoris and Europeans. It would be simpler?— No. 33. Well, make them Justices of the Peace then ?—That was done before and it was not satisfactory. 34. And he still thinks that they should have power to deal with the civil cases?—l say that this House should pass a law which would provide for the appointment of Maoris as Magistrates in their own districts, because I anticipate that a number of Maori Committees will be constituted in various districts of this Island. And I say that where questions arise in disputes between one Maori and another that the Maori Magistrates should deal with such cases. Where it is a question of a case between a pakeha and a Maori,- then you would have European Magistrates to deal with matters of that kind. 35. Well, does he mean this: that say there is in a village Maoris coming home late and disturbing the whole village—coming back drunk from some publichouse and disturbing the peace of that locality—the Maori Justices of the Peace appointed should have power to try them and to fine them : does the witness mean that?—Oh, yes, if such a rule as this had been made in that village. If any man comes home drunk and is seen drunk about any of the streets or parts of his place it should be competent to fine that man. Certainly the Maoris should do that. 36. Perhaps this will be nearer his idea : Supposing by Act you appointed, say, Village Boards or Village Councils, whatever you like to call them, just the same as the pakehas have Town Boards —of course, in some places they call them Committees—very well, then, a body like that to have charge of the village, and to see as to its sanitation, drainage, and to prevent drunkenness, permitting their taking wrongdoers before a Magistrate for punishment and so forth, would not that be useful instead of aiming at a larger constitution, which would only lead to complications if cases of law and so forth had to be dealt with ?—I am speaking in support of this petition, which asks for the granting of the Maori Council. It does not say anything now about the appointing of Kaiwhakawa Magistrates and so forth, but I am talking about what will come afterwards. 37. I know that. Of course, we are all investigating the matter to see if we can get any light out of it. 38. Captain Russell.) Supposing the Natives leased to a European and there is trouble between them, what Court is to decide their dispute ?—I have already replied to that question in my previous reply to a question put by Mr. Carroll. In the event of any question arising between Maoris and Europeans they would come to a Magistrate or the Supreme Court to be heard. I have no desire that this Bill should in any way clash with any of the laws of the country, and I cannot see that there is any part of it, as far as I can understand it as yet, that would in any way clash with the country's laws, but that it would be of very great assistance in the dispensation of the country's laws. 39. Mr. McLean.] Does he propose that there should be only one Council, or several ?—What I say is this: that if we have one general Maori Council constituted that Maori Council should have the power to appoint tribal Councils to operate in their respective districts amongst their own people. 40. How is the cost of the Council to be defrayed ? Where is it to come from ?—I think the Maoris owning lands must contribute to support the system and in the same way that Europeans do, then they will progress as Europeans do. I see members smile when they hear me say that, as though they look upon Maoris as being unable to manage their own affairs, but let me tell the members of this Committee that the Maoris are quite grown up, as far as present circumstances require, and are competent to deal with these things.