13

E.—3b

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

NELSON. Thursday, 26th July, 1900. Gboegb Malcolm Eout, Land Agent, examined on oath. I. Mr. Harley.] You are Chairman of the Nelson Charitable Aid Board?—l am. 2.' You know St. Mary's Orphanage ?—Yes, very well. 3. Have you been there frequently of late years ? —Yes, on several occasions. I do not know how many. 4. Mr. Wardell.] During what period ?—The last ten years. 5. Frequently during the last ten years ? —Yes. 6. Mr. Harley.] And also during the last two years ?—Yes, more frequently. 7. Are there many boys kept there?—A considerable number. They average between 125 and 200. 8. What age do they appear to be?— Some are young; they look about six, and upwards. 9. Do you know what management the school is under ? Men or women ? —I have never seen any women there, and I feel sure there are none. Mr. Fell: I may shorten this at once by saying that the school is under the management of the Marist Brothers. 10. Mr. Harley.] Do you remember making a visit to the Orphanage in May last ?—I do. 11. Who went with you?— Mr. Piper, yourself, and Mr. Heyward, Relieving Officer to the Board. 12. What time of the day did you go ?—We left town shortly after ten, so far as I remember. 13. Mr. Wardell.] What day was it ?—Wednesday, 30th May last. 14. Mr. Harley.] What position do these particular members of the Board hold ? —They are the sub-committee of the Board, composed of the town members representing the City Council of Nelson. 15. Will you tell the Commission what you saw and what took place on that visit ?—When we arrived we knocked at the door, and Brother Augustine, the second in charge at the institution, came to the door. He knew me and addressed me by name, and I introduced him to the other members of the Board, not knowing whether he knew them or not. I told him the reason of the visit—that we had come to make a thorough inspection of the institution. 16. Did you assume that you had the right to make this visit ?—Yes, as Chairman of the Board, I thought I had a legal right to make an official visit. 17. And you proceeded upon the inspection on that assumption ?—On that assumption. 18. Mr. Wardell.] Did Brother Augustine comply with your wish and take you round ?—Yes, he took us round. 19. Mr. Harley.] Whom did he take upstairs?— Mr. Piper and myself. 20. What became of the other two ?—They went into the school grounds to interview the boys—at least I presume for that purpose. They were talking to the boys. 21. And what did you and Mr. Piper do ?—We went upstairs and proceeded to the dormitory in the middle of the building. After we had been in that for a moment I said to Brother Augustine, " We have come to-day to make a thorough inspection, and I would like to commence at the south end and make a systematic inspection from one end to the other." He said, "All right," and we proceeded to view the dormitory at the south end of the building, I take it that, roughly speaking, the building runs north and south. After leaving this dormitory the Brother walked slightly in advance of us past one or two doors. I asked him to wait a minute and kindly open the doors he had passed, so that we could see every room. He said, " I cannot show you in these rooms," or " into that room." He said "It is locked." That was the first room from the dormitory. 22. Which room is that in position?—lt is the room between the passage and the tower. It is used as a store-room. Brother Augustine, after saying the room was locked, said, "It only contains the Brothers' private effects." I said, "You must not have locked rooms in a public institution." 23. You did not get into this room ?—No; we were told that the keys were away from the institution. We expressed disappointment and annoyance at finding the rooms locked and the keys away. 24. Did he say who had the keys ?—Yes ; he said Brother Loetus had them, and that he was in Nelson. 25. Did you go through any other rooms?— Not then ; we walked down stairs. 26. Were you looking for anything in particular?— Yes, for boys in confinement. 27. Did you tell the Brother that ?—Not then. 28. You went down stairs. Where did you go then?—We joined Mr. Heyward and yourself in the school-grounds. 29. What was the next step ?—Whilst standing in the school-grounds we saw a window upstairs open exposing iron bars.