B.—3b

30

106. You are going into luxuries. Can you say what Irish stew should be like for charitable institutions ?—I think children supported by the State should be fed the same as children outside. 107. What is the usual proportion of meat and potatoes?— There ought to be a good third meat. 108. You do not think there was that in the stew at the school ?—No. John McCormack, examined on oath. 109. Mr. Harley.] How old are you?— Sixteen on the 17th April last. 110. You have been an Orphanage boy at Stoke, and are a Nelson boy ? —Yes. 111. Were you at the Orphanage long?— About seven years. I left on the 20th of last April. 112. Where are you now ?—Working at Cable Bay. 113. I understand that you are licensed out from the institution—that you are not yet free ?— Yes. 114. What food did you get at the Orphanage ?—The regular dinner was stew, except on Fridays, when there was rice and bread. Sometimes when we ran short of potatoes we got bread and treacle. 115. Did you get anything to drink with the Irish stew ? —No. 116. What did you have for the evening meal ?—Bread and dripping, and tea on every day of the week. 117. How much bread did you get? —The little ones got less than the big ones. Some of the big ones got three and some two slices off a big tin-loaf. 118. The bread is made at the Orphanage, is it not ? —Yes. 119. Did you ever see the dripping prepared? What was it made of?— Pat off the mutton or beef-suet rendered down, with pepper and salt put upon it. 120. What colour is it?— Sometimes not a very nice colour, and sometimes it is a decent colour. It is sometimes white and sometimes brown. 121. How is it put on the bread ?—You dip one end into a basin of dripping, rub it against another whilst it is hot. 122. Do you get butter?— Not very often. 123. How was it given to you? —It was melted the same way as the fat. 124. Mr. WardelL] How often do you have butter? —Sometimes once in four or five months, and have it perhaps for four weeks at a time. 125. Mr. Harley.] Do you know the difference between dripping and rendered fat ?—I do not know the difference between them. 126. Did you get jam at all ?—Yes ; pumpkin and vegetable-marrow jam for five months sometimes. When we started to have it we had it for tea. 127. What did you have for breakfast ? —Every other morning thick porridge, and one slice of the tinned loaf. 128. Is there any difference between the porridge you got then and what you get now out of the institution ?—There is a difference. What I get now is better. 129. What do you get on the mornings when there is no porridge?— Bread and jam if it is jam time, and tea ; or dripping if it is not jam time. 130. Do you ever have any joints of meat, or parts of joints ? —No. 131. Do you ever get meat in any other form except Irish stew?— Sometimes; not very often. About three or four times a year when I was there. 132. Do you ever get pudding? —Yes, at Easter and Christmas. 133. Also on saints' days ?—Sometimes, and sometimes buns or cakes. I got cakes once when I was there. 134. How many suits of clothes used you to have? —Two. As soon as one was bad we asked for another. Sometimes we got it and sometimes we did not. We had a little better clothes for Sundays than for week-days. There was a best lot for visitors, which were not worn often. These were kept in the study, and the Sunday clothes were kept in the press. Each boy had tw6 shirts, one on and one off. 135. Did you have any under-pants or under-shirts in winter ?—No. Sometimes in winter we got a guernsey on top of the shirt. We did. not get it every winter. 136. Did you have any waistcoat?—A few had them with their working-clothes when I left. Some of the visitors' suits were full suits, and some were not. 137. Were you warm enough in winter ?—No. On some days I was very cold. 138. Mr. WardelL] How were you last winter ?—I was not very warm then. 139. Mr. Harley.] Was it because the days were cold, or because the clothes were not warm enough ?—The clothes were not warm enough. 140. Did the boys complain among themselves?— Yes. I do not know whether they complained to the Brothers. 141. Did you ever complain to the Brothers ?—Yes ; I complained once and did not get more clothes. Another time I did. 142. Mr. WardelL] Were these two complaints made during one winter ?—Yes. 143. Mr. Harley.] Do you know the hill at the back of the Orphanage, where they go up to get wood ? —Yes. They were not going up very often when I left. They were then bringing fencing, firewood, and hop -poles. Sometimes they got manuka off the low hills. I have been up the high hill for wood. 144. What is the most times you have been up in one day ?—Four times—two in the morning, and two in the afternoon. 145. Was that hard work? —Yes. Some took their time, and it would be a little easier; but they could not then do four trips on one day.