53

E.—3b

250. Did you see Brother Kilian pulling this down?— Yes. He put some of the wood in the workshop, and some was used for firewood. 251. Mr. Bush.] Were you boys allowed to play in the front?— No. 252. If any one was confined in the cell could he talk to the boys in the front ?—Yes ;he could talk to them if they were passing by. We were not allowed to play in the front, but some might be working in the front garden. 253. How many boys do you know to have been in the cells within the last few years?— Skilton, Lowe, Newman, Clements, Kirk, Maher, and James. 254. Have you seen these boys in the cell ?—I have seen most of them. 255. You have known that they were there ?—Yes. 256. Did you ever see a boy in any of the cells where the photographic room is within the last two years ?—No. 257. Mr. Hogben.] What is Clements's other name ?—Harry Clements. 258. How old is he ?—About sixteen. 259. Did you have milk with your porridge ?—Yes. 260. Mr. Wardell.] About the meat you "sneaked": did you do that often ?—Not always • about twice a week. J ' 261. Did you take the same day's meat?— Sometimes. 262. Where did you get it from ?—From the slaughterhouse. I would get the liver 263. Who cut the sheep up?— Brother Patrick.

Tuesday, 31st July, 1900. Boland Henry Pope, recalled and examined on former oath. 1. Mr Hogben.] Will you explain exactly the state of things with regard to the payments made by the Government, on account of the inmates chargeable to the Government to the Manager of St. Mary s Industrial School ?—The Government pays the management at the rate of Is a day per head. In the case of boys committed prior to the Ist January, 1893, payment is made in all cases up to the age of fifteen, provided, of course, that in the interval the inmate has not ceased to be chargeable. From Ist January, 1893, the rule has been that for children committed after that date payment shall cease at the age of fourteen years. If, however, the Manager reports that a boy is of vicious nabits, or has any physical deformity—in fact, is not suitable for placing out at service— the Department considers each case on its merits, and, if it sees fit, allows payment until he reaches fifteen years of age. That is the position. 2. Mr. Harley.] The boys Maher and James, are they not both above fourteen years of age ?— The maintenance of Maher is chargeable against the Wellington Hospital and Charitable Aid Board and is therefore not paid for by the Government. As regards James, he was committed before the Ist January, 1893; consequently his maintenance will be chargeable to the Government up to fifteen. l 3. Then the rule as to payment ceasing at fourteen does not apply to Charitable Aid Boards ? TV 0- ■,I, ? y as been sent to the sch ° ol after Jul y> 1895 ' the date of the passing of the Industrial Schools Act Amendment Act, his maintenance, according to the Department's "reading is a charge against the Charitable Aid Board so long as he is maintained at the school In case of say, an imbecile boy, it is quite possible that the Charitable Aid Board would be chargeable with his maintenance until he is twenty-one years of age. 4. Mr. Wardell] This is under which Act?— The Hospitals and Charitable Institutions Act 0. Mr. Harley.] Is the boy Moore, who was here yesterday, a Government boy ?—I think lie isi; and that he was committed under section 19 of the Act as a boy charged with a punishable offence. Section 16 deals with cases of destitution, begging, receiving alms, vagrancy living in disreputable places, associating with disreputable characters ; section 17 with being uncontrollable • section 19 as guilty or accused of punishable offences. Then, under section 25, the Governor has the power to transfer a child under the age of eighteen years from a, gaol to an industrial school That to say, practically, section 19 over again. Section 20 is also related to section 19. Chaeles Parnham (in religion, Brother Cuthbert), examined on oath. 6. Mr. Fell.] You are a member of the Marist Brotherhood, and have been attached for some years to the Stoke Orphanage ?—Yes ; I have been there since 10th January 1896 7. What duties have you fulfilled during the last two years?—ln the evening I have been employed as teacher in the school, and in the morning at various kinds of farm-work. ■8. Have you had the boys working under your supervision ?—Yes, commonly. 9. Have you been engaged in hill-work with the boys?—l have on the following occasions during the last two years : 11th November, 1898; Bth September, 15th September 13th October, 1899 ; 11th, 26th, and 28th April, 1900—on the last occasion with sixteen boys. i l ?' S, an yOU Say whether other b °y g ha ve been employed under other Brothers at the same work ?—They may have been three or four times with Brother Damien. 11. Mr. Wardell] You say sixteen boys went up on the 28th April: what was the number on other occasions ?—From eighty to ninety boys. 12. Mr. Fell] Just give a sketch of this work ?—As a rule, it was announced the night before when we were going up the hill. The dinner would be packed and other things arranged the same night. This trip was always regarded by the boys as a picnic. Weather permitting the boys always left the school after breakfast—about 8 o'clock. They led, and I followed 13. Did you ever drive them with a stick, or did the boys go of themselves ?— I never had occasion to use a stick. The shortest time I went up the hill with the boys has been one hour We followed the track, on which are certain places with names given to them by the boys After