75

B.—3b

evidence myself on the subject before a parliamentary Committee, and it was decided by Parliament that there should not be any distinction, and I have acted on those instructions. 169. Will you describe the system of payments?— Before the Charitable Aid Bill passed, all boys committed were paid for direct by the Government at the rate of Is. per day per head. Since the Charitable Aid Bill passed all children committed through indigence have been maintained by the Boards of the districts to which they belonged. The number maintained now by both the Government and the Charitable Aid Boards is 102. The Government pay Is. per day per head up to fifteen years of age in cases in which the boys were committed before the Ist January, 1893. If committed since then the Government pay up to fourteen years of age. If there is a case in which I can conscientiously recommend a boy for service, and he is not deficient physically, morally, or mentally, I secure employment for him. 170. In no case are boys paid for after the age of fifteen ?—The Nelson Board is at present paying for one boy above that age ; but he is an idiot. All Boards do not pay the same. Eeefton, Wanganui, Dunedin, and Auckland pay 6s. 6d. a week; Picton, Westport, and Christchurchpay 6s ; Nelson for five boys pays 7s. a week, and for two boys ss. 171. You say you have boys from various parts of the colony?— Yes; we have four from Christchurch, two each from Westport, Picton, and Eeefton, nine from Dunedin, and one from Auckland. 172. When a boy reaches the age of fourteen or fifteen, as the case might be, and does not go out to service, what is done ?—They are still inmates; but until they go out to service no payment is received for their maintenance, except in such special cases as have been mentioned. At present there are eighteen boys in the school maintained for nothing at all. Boys often leave their employment and go back to the school. One boy who ran away from his employer is now at the school. As a rule they run back to the school when they leave their employment. 173. Mr. WardelL] Have you had many cases of this kind ? —Yes ; many. 174. Mr. Fell.] How long do you keep them for nothing?—lt depends upon cases. A boy who has returned from employment may be kept for nothing till he gets another place. 175. How many inmates are there altogether in the school?— About a hundred and twentyfive. There are a few who are sent privately. I would like to say that had I not heard the matter put so clearly before the Commissioners by Mr. Hogben I would have had an official from the Post-Office Savings-Bank here to show my position in regard to the wages' accounts of the service inmates. As my position has been so clearly defined by Mr. Hogben, I have not much to say in that respect. I keep the wages' accounts, and put the money in the savings-bank in my official capacity as Manager, and I cannot draw any of it out till I get an order from the Minister of Education. Some boys think that they have a grievance because they cannot draw their earnings. I have now £830 in the bank belonging to inmates. The license form, signed, has to be approved by the Minister. This is returned to me, and lam bound to see that the money is paid by the employer to me as Manager. Mr. Pope in his evidence the other day said I was not exactly an official. I am not a paid officer, and I have^received much assistance from Mr. Hogben and Mr. Pope in the matter. Sometimes when an employer signs a form promising to pay a boy so much a week and his clothing, I find, when the reckoning-day comes, that the employer had not understood the agreement, and that he has deducted the value of the clothing from the amount agreed upon. Sometimes I have been told to summons the employers, but I have never yet done so. Sometimes the amount expected by the department is not altogether there. The boys sometimes go from one employer to another who does not understand the regulation, and thus the boys may receive their own wages. I have recommended, and Mr. Hogben agrees with me, that the boys should be allowed a little money from their wages as pocket-money, and that they should be allowed to buy their own clothes. The Department, in some cases in which I have applied for the money the boys have earned when licensed out, has found out that it is not desirable that the boys should have the money, and then the application is refused. All this brings me into difficulty with the boys, who do not understand that it is not my fault. 176. When you receive the money for maintenance, what do you do with it ? —I pay it- over to the Brothers. 177. Do you exercise any supervision or control of the funds afterwards ?—No. The Brothers also have all the proceeds of the farm. 178. Have you any control over the expenditure of the money in hand ?—No ; I look for the payment of the interest, and they have the rest. 179. Coming now to the complaints made by the Charitable Aid Board : You heard me suggest that you would accept the assistance of lawfully appointed male and female Inspectors. Is that so ? —I would be very glad of it. 180. Have you asked people to go out to the Orphanage when they liked?— Yes, frequently. 181. Mr. WardelL] Would you recognise the right of such visitors as those mentioned by Mr. Fell to officially report to the Department the result of their inspection ?—Yes. If any complaints were made, I would see them attended to. 182. Mr. Fell.] Were you aware of the nature of the punishments adopted at the school ?—No ; I left that to the Brothers. 183. Did you know of the cells ?—I knew of them as rooms. I formerly occupied the room which has been divided into the group of three cells, and which was originally intended for the use of the Manager and his family. I was quite ignorant of the system of confinement in the two small cells referred to. 184. Do you approve of that system as described ?—I would not approve of it. 185. Would you have any objection to conform with the Government regulations respecting punishments ?—No. In my opinion, a boy should be punished immediately on the commission of an offence, and once for all, and be done with it. : ■ ■