I.—6b.

a year." Q. " And a very large outlay would have to be incurred all over the system? " A. " Yes, undoubtedly." That is Mr. Charles Hudson's evidence with regard to simplicity. Gentlemen, I worked out my table in one evening and Mr. Hudson told the Committee it would take a year to do it. All you have to do is just to put a printed copy of my table on the walls of platforms and stations —and I want to know where the large outlay comes in. That is the class of evidence that I was defeated on in the last inquiry. I think it is necessary that I should show you what kind of evidence I have been beaten by, and kept back in this matter. Mr. Hannay. gave similar evidence, which is as follows:—Question 574: "Mr. Macandrew (to Mr. Hannay) : Assuming that the charges under Mr. Yaile's system were regulated to yield as much revenue, would you consider the system preferable ?" A. "No; I do not see any kind of advantage in it." Q. " Would it not be simpler? " A. " No; of course, Mr. Vaile himself has said that he has not gone into details, but there is nothing I can see in the general plan to make it simpler." Q. "1 understand, then, that not only would there be no advantage from the change, but you are of opinion that there would be a decrease of revenue ?." A. " That would, of course, entirely depend upon what the rates were ; but I think there would be a decrease of revenue." Question 608 : " Hon. Mr. Eichardson (to Mr. Hannay): Comparing the stage system with the present mileage system, which do you think would be more easily understood by the general public? " A. "I do not think the stage system would be any more intelligible. As a matter of fact, passengers' fares are now posted up outside every booking-office, and the passenger has only to refer to it." Q. " Mr. Hudson stated that it would be absolutely necessary to have rate-books at every station?" A. "That is so. Each station would require to be supplied, because the rates from every station would be different." (This statement of Mr. Hannay's is absolutely incorrect. The rates are the same from every station.) Q. "Mr. Macandrew: Would not the rates have to be posted up under the stage system? " A. " Yes, to be intelligible to the public." Q. " Hon. Mr. Eichardson : Then, under the present system one scale of rates answers the purpose all over, and in the other case a special list would be required for each station ? " Mr. Hannay made no reply to this question, but left it to be believed that that would be so. Now, this departmental distance-table of the Auckland Section of railways as it was in 18d7 contains 105 columns, comprising between them 22,930 figures, and rendering necessary the calculation of 11,025 different fares for each class of passengers—that is to say, taking first- and second-class single, and first- and second-class return, 44,000 different tickets for only 236 miles of railway. The distance-table under the stage system which I prepared for the same section and stations, as will be seen, contains only fifteen columns, comprising between them but 132 figures, and with only 144 possible charges to calculate; and if the use of distance tickets is discontinued and stage tickets only used—which is what I should prefer—then there would be only four different tickets for each class in use on the whole of the New Zealand lines. Yet Messrs. Hannay and Hudson deliberately gave evidence that the stage system was the most complicated of the two. I compiled the stage-distance and fares table shown here in one evening.

Stage System Distance-table applied to the Auckland Section as it was in September, 1887.

5

a year." Q. " And a very large outlay would have to be incurred all over the system? " A. " Yes, undoubtedly." That is Mr. Charles Hudson's evidence with regard to simplicity. Gentlemen, I worked out my table in one evening and Mr. Hudson told the Committee it would take a year to do it. All you have to do is just to put a printed copy of my table on the walls of platforms and stations —and I want to know where the large outlay comes in. That is the class of evidence that I was defeated on in the last inquiry. I think it is necessary that I should show you what kind of evidence I have been beaten by, and kept back in this matter. Mr. Hannay. gave similar evidence, which is as follows:—Question 574: "Mr. Maeandrew (to Mr. Hannay) : Assuming that the charges under Mr. Vaile's system were regulated to yield as much revenue, would you consider the system preferable ? " A. "No; I do not see any kind of advantage in it." Q. " Would it not be simpler ? " A. "No; of course, Mr. Vaile himself has said that he has not gone into details, but there is nothing I can see in the general plan to make it simpler." Q. " I understand, then, that not only would there be no advantage from the change, but you are of opinion that there would be a decrease of revenue ? " A. " That would, of course, entirely depend upon what the rates were ; but I think there would be a decrease of revenue." Question 608 : " Hon. Mr. Eichardson (to Mr. Hannay) : Comparing the stage system with the present mileage system, which do you think would be more easily understood by the general public? " A. "I do not think the stage system would be any more intelligible. As a matter of fact, passengers' fares are now posted up outside every booking-office, and the passenger has only to refer to it." Q. " Mr. Hudson stated that it would be absolutely necessary to have rate-books at every station?" A. "That is so. Each station would require to be supplied, because the rates from every station would be different." (This statement of Mr. Hannay's is absolutely incorrect. The rates are the same from every station.) Q. "Mr. Maeandrew: Would not the rates have to be posted up under the stage system? " A. " Yes, to be intelligible to the public." Q. " Hon. Mr. Eichardson : Then, under the present system one scale of rates answers the purpose all over, and in the other case a special list would be required for each station ? " Mr. Hannay made no reply to this question, but left it to be believed that that would be so. Now, this departmental distance-table of the Auckland Section of railways as it was in 1887 contains 105 columns, comprising between them 22,930 figures, and rendering necessary the calculation of 11,025 different fares for each class of passengers—that is to say, taking first- and second-class single, and first- and second-class return, 44,000 different tickets for only 236 miles of railway. The distance-table under the stage system which I prepared for the same section and stations, as will be seen, contains only fifteen columns, comprising between them but 132 figures, and with only 144 possible charges to calculate; and if the use of distance tickets is discontinued and stage tickets only used— which is what I should prefer—then there would be only four different tickets for each class in use on the whole of the New Zealand lines. Yet Messrs. Hannay and Hudson deliberately gave evidence that the stage system was the most complicated of the two. I compiled the stage-distance and fares table shown here in one evening. Stage System Distance-table applied to the Auckland Section as it tuas in September, 1887. Stage Stations. And for following Intermediate Stations :— Obirangi — Paeroa — Woodhill — Bewhiti — Waimauku 0 CO a w 3 A! 3 a "3 Note.—In reading this table for intermediate stations, when going from north to south, read from the stage stations in the second column. When going from south to north read from the stage stations in italics in the third column. Kemember the fare is to be calculated for each stage station you pass and for the station you arrive at. The figure3 used in this table are of the same size and character as those used in the distance-table, of which I give a piiotograve in my pamphlet ■' Social Problems." Helensville Waimauku Kumeu— Taupaki 3 CC a, 3 C3 E3 o «j u (D a w a; a Taupaki Waitakerei —Swanson — Henderson 1 2 1 Henderson Waikomiti —New Lynn—Avondalo— Mount Albert Mount Albert .. Auckland Morningside—Kingsland—Mount Eden— Auckland Newmarket — Bemuera — Greenlane — Ellerslie — Penrose o T3 3 O 3 1 Penrose Te Papapa — Onehunga — Westfield — Otahuhu — Papatoitoi— Manurewa 1 CD CO o CD Ph 1 C3 CD 5 CO 1 Manurewa Papakura—Hunua— Drury 3 2 2 H 3 w ft Drury Bunciman —Paerata— Pukekohe.. 10 Pukekohe Buckland — Tuakau —■ Whangarata — Pokeno — Mercer—Whangamarino—Wairangi—Bangiriri— Obinewai — Huntly — Taupiri — Ngaruawahia — Pukete—Te Bapa— Frankton .. ' CD "3 CD 3 Ph 6 a n K, a o 03 fa 1 2 1 11 Frankton June. Bukuhia — Obaupo — Lake Boad — Ngaroto — Te Awamutu —Te Puhi—Kawa—Kiokio Otorohanga Hangatiki—Te Kumi— Te Kuiti '3 M CD Eh 10 5 4 3 2 1 12 Te Kuiti As above 11 10 6 I 5 4 3 2 13 Te Aroha Hamilton, E. and W.—Buakura Junction—Eureka —Motumaoho — Morrinsville — Murray — Tatua —Waitoa—Waihou— Te Aroha Cd ■ JS o u < CO Eh ll 10 fi4 3 2 1 2 14 Oxford Hamilton, E. and W. —Buakura Junction—Eureka —Motumaoho—Morrinsville—Kiwitahi — Walton —Wabaroa—Matamata—Mangawhara —Okoroire — Oxford -3 v. >c O 15 Cambridge Hamilton, E. and W.—Buakura Junction—Newstead —Tamahere —Pencourt— Cambridge 11 10 ! S 5 4 3 *\ 2 |1 2 2 1 1 CD s o 2 2 a 3 1.1 10 4 3 1 1 116 Lichfield 6 5 4 3 2 3 2 1 12 11 10 v