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lation will no doubt necessitate an alteration in the stages. It will, however, serve to show the system. 84. Hon. J. G. Ward.] Under that diagram the second-class fare would be Bd. and the firstclass fare Is. ?—Yes, for two stages ; but it all depends on the location of the population, and if you work by whole or half stages. 85" Mr. J. W. Thomson.] The next place of importance you come to is the line between Mosgiel and Milton, which passes through a good agricultural district, but there are no towns of any extent. Milton is about thirty-six miles from Dunedin, and a farming district?—lt would be 2s. 6d. or Is. Bd. ; but you will kindly bear in mind that the population may have shifted since my plan was laid down. 86. Then, the last branch passes through the same kind of country. It goes right on to Balclutha, about fifty-two miles or thereabouts from Dunedin ?—That would be the same fare. 87. How would that happen : how would it be the same fare when Balclutha is about sixteen miles further on?— The principle here in my system is to absolutely ignore the mileage, and to pay attention to the density of population. It is a complete change of system. 88. In speaking of Green Island in my previous questions, I meant Abbotsford. Then you come on through agricultural country till you come to Clinton, which is seventy-four miles from Dunedin? —That is the same fare. 89. Then you come to Gore, which is 100 miles from Dunedin ?—2s. or 3s. is generally the 100-mile fare. 90. Then we pass on through country district, and we come to Invercargill, which is 139 miles away from Dunedin : what might the fare there be ?—lt would probably be 3s. 6d. and 2s. 4d. 91. The Chairman.] You say your fare from Dunedin to Invercargill, which is 150 miles, would be 3s. 6d. and 2s. 4d. ?—Yes, it would be about that. It depends a good deal on the population. 92. Mr. Flatman.] Have you any fare for produce and stock, and that kind of thing?—No, I have not worked it out. It was impossible for me to do it, because I had not the information before me. In working on this question it is necessary for me to avoid doing anything that can be shown to be a loss to the country, and, as I have not had the information with reference to the goods branch of the question, I have not gone into that. Of course, the goods tariff is a most intricate thing, and will require a. lot of study and care, and must be gone into very carefully indeed if the country is not to be involved in a loss. It would mean taking all the different classes of goods that are sent on the railways, and the different classes of charges for them, and it would be a very great work of labour, and require the most scrupulous care in order to avoid loss. 93. Then, it would be of no use adopting the passenger-fares under your system until you had the goods system worked out as well?—I think the proper plan is to try it on the passengers first. The Hungarians were running their lines under the system for six years before they touched the goods branch of the question. The system has been adopted in Europe. 94. The Chairman.] In connection with this diagram in your book, Mr. Vaile : I find that this pamphlet was issued five years ago ? —No. The diagram was, but the book only two years ago. 95. Can you tell me, taking the journey from Auckland to Penrose, what is your fare : is it 6d. and 4d. against the Government's fare of 10d. and 7d. ? —Yes. 96. Can you tell me what the Government fare is now ?—Prom Auckland to Penrose the Government fare is 10d. for the first class and 7d. for the second class. 97. Now, take the next stage, to Manurewa, which is fifteen miles : your fare is Is. first class and Bd. second class, against the Government's fare of 2s. and Is. 4d. ?—Yes. 98. Then, from Auckland to Drury your fare is Is. 6d. and Is., against the Government's fare of 2s. 6d. and Is. ? —The Government fare is 2s. 10d. and Is. lid. 99. Then, the next stage is from Auckland to Pukekohe: the fare under your system is 2s. and Is. 4d. ?—Yes, against 4s. and 2s. Bd. now. I might remark that you will see that the reductions already made have led to a very great increase in the number of passengers carried. 100. You stated that you would clear at least £1,000,000 a year out of the railways under your system ?—I believe it could be done easily. 101. Do you know what the cost of earning that £1,000,000 a year under the Government system would be ?—No ; but under my system very little more than it is now. I say that we would get that under the stage system easily. 102. I see you say it would be a million and a half? —I believe it would be a million and a half. 103. Do you know what the whole population of the colony is worth to the Eailway Department for revenue purposes — for passengers and goods? It is £2 3s. 6d. per head, or, say, practically £2 per head. Under your system the population would have to count up at £4 per head annually to get the same result? Why?— But under the stage system for all traffic they would do it easily. 104. To get the return from the railways you reckon the people of New Zealand would have to contribute double as much to the railways as they do now ?—Yes; for the simple reason that our railways are not made use of now to the extent that they might be. I have tried to get an estimate of the proportion of population our railways now serve, or what proportion of our population do now make use of the railways, but I have not succeeded. 105. I want to see how much more they would contribute ?—lt just depends on what proportion of the people use the railways. So far as I can ascertain, not more than 25 per cent, of them use them, and the other 75 per cent, coming in would make up the extra estimated figure. 106. 'Do you think an* Auckland syndicate would undertake to guarantee the Government against any loss if your system were given a fair trial on the Auckland section of railways?— Yes; there would be no trouble about it on fair terms.

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