1.—14.

F. H. D. BELL.]

equity of redemption pass away from the Natives without a further chance being given to the Natl 50 S ' Mr. A. L. D. Fraser.] The business for the accountant does not go beyond 1895 ?—No; because of the decree of the Supreme Court. ll' thTtW Se to inquire into ?-Yes ; it really does not mean that 5°3 U The a ILVnTSrtlU'sSStedness is £52,525 ?-Bou g hly, that is the increase beyond the I"tt tuTes dispute some of that ?-Some items. The greater part is not disputed at aIL 55. Some items are?-The question of whether Paramata ought not to have been credited with large sums which it received. 56 There is onlv a small amount involved ?—Yes. - 57' In section 3what do those words, in line 34, «' or otherwise mean? Does that mean he bank can in two years sell without any notice whatever ?-No, it may sell; if it sells under the Suet of the Be'gistrar of the SuprenJcourt it can buy itself. .^^.^f^X of the Registrar of the Supreme Court anything which it knows it is able to find a purchaser tor. 58 The sale could not be done by private arrangement through the bank and private owners. Tt must be sale bv auction ?—Yes, it must be sold by auction, because it is JNative land. 59 You say it s sold under an order of the Registrar of the Supreme Court or otherwise, and << otherwise " means by auction ?-No, it means under the conduct of the Registrar, but the bank 60 an^V e i l IS They "can deal privately ?-Not with Native land. The only provision in the Act with regard to Native land is that the bank may itself buy at the auction 61 Mr A L D Fraser.] Did I understand you to say that you drafted this Bill, Mr. Bell !— Y6S 62 d L a nd e er Itfe^stlon'or'instructions did you put in the Bill, Mr, Carroll and Mr Wi Pere to be relieved of their positions and the Maori Council to be put m their place ?-That was not my drafting but I may say that I think it is desirable that Mr. Carroll and Mr Wi Pere should be rSve"l of the trusteeship and somebody else appointed. We feel that it has been a failure so far with them, and they must feel it themselves. 63 In clause 10, " All lands now held by the trustees, either by themselves or with other trustees in trust for Native beneficiaries, and whether comprised in the securities hereinbefore referred to or not, shall immediately upon the passing of this Act and by virtue hereof be vested in the Council," &c. They have managed it for a number of years ?-They have managed some of the Pf°P^ t Receiver 7 _ l be ite wrong T ht th ey had made a mess of it 65. That is a matter of opinion. That is not your drafting at all, I understand, Mr. Bell ?- N °' 66 Would you kindly explain section 10, this part especially-perhaps you will kindly explain to the Committee professionally what this means: "The title of the Council shall be indefeasible, save as is herein provided," and so on. What has that got to do with the bank-anything ?- Nothing; but lam not the draftsman. I suggest that you ask Mr. Kees. ***„,«. 67 Has that anything to do, either directly or indirectly, with the bank s securities ?-Excep bv the last words of it. They were buying the land out from the Natives and getting Europeans on t and we doubted whether we could not be taxed on the basis of European land The proviso is mv drafting, " Provided that for all purposes of any Act relating to taxation the bank shall continue to be iiable only as if the equity of redemption of the lands mortgaged had continued to b6 V S e UVt h p e roris S o e hashttle or nothing to do with the greater part of the drafting ?-That is so. 69' Mr McNab.] I understood you to say that if the sale went on it would practically mean that the bank would have to buy the property ?-It would not have to buy the specific There would be plenty of bidders for the specific securities, but at a very great undervalue. With regard To the pelific securities, the public know exactly the sum which the bank claims, because St sum is filed in the Supreme Court. They know, therefore, the price We know there will be for many of the specific securities purchasers at that reserve price. There will not be very great anticipate the bank will have. to. buy and sell if the sale comes on?—lt will offer the whole of the lands comprised in the principal security, say, to the ValU< 7l of toTai o if°we do not pass this Bill, it will mean lands coming into the ownership of the bank to the extent of about £100,000 ?-Yes; and the other lands will pass away from the Natives at ' m the Bill are given effect to by Parliament the necessity for the bank acquiring the ownership of an estate of about £100,000 will not be necessary ?-Not for two years ; and I think, in all probability a large part of that will be redeemed m. that time, as well as he specific securities. There is no danger of the specific securities passing into the possession of the 73 The danger of the specific securities is the sacrifice ?—Yes. 74! In regard to the others, the bank accounts lodged command £100,000 of real estate ?- Which it would prefer to have instead of mortgage. , ~ . i c , , A 75 AM which, if it fell into their hands, would fall into their hands at a figure largely under its real value to the real owners?-! am not sure, sir, about that in regard to the principal

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