I.—lα.

96

[c. mackay.

1108. You have said in your evidence—it appears in these papers—-that you asked Constable Burrell whether he did not know that a constable had been dismissed or sent out of the Force for being on the station the same time as he was ?—For similar conduct. 1109. Constable Martin ?—Yes. 1110. Well, now, Burrell was in the station with his uniform on, getting a cup of tea or something of the kind —Yes. 1111. Well, now, in Martin's case was not that man asleep in bed?— That is so, between 3 and 4. 1112. Had he not improperly withdrawn himself from the theatre, where he had been sent on duty ?—Yes ; he said he was sick. 1113. And had he not lost his shako, which was subsequently found on the verandah of a lad} 7 of questionable reputation, and he was not able to give a satisfactory account of it?— His account was that it was blown off by the wind. 1114. That was not considered to be satisfactory. Was not Constable Martin sent out of the Force for these three offences combined ?—Yes. 1115. Well, now, do you consider that your remark to Constable Burrell, that Martin had been sent out of the Force for similar conduct, was a correct one ?—I think so, at the time. 1116. Your mind deceived you, did it?—No ; but from the information I had at the time I thought he was guilty of similar conduct, much more so, or worse, than Constable Martin. 1117. You did not distinguish between the two cases: the constable going to get the cup of tea in the middle of the night and the other case ? —No ; I did not swallow the cup-of-tea business at all. 1118. You also referred to the charge of drunkenness against Sergeant Mackay, on page 15. In one of your reports you said the conduct of the police of Nelson has been very bad ever since the charge of drunkenness against Sergeant Mackay ?—I had reason to believe that. 1119. That charge was inquired into by the Magistrate, was it not?— Yes. 1120. And it was dismissed by the Magistrate ? —-Yes.

Wednesday, Ist Octobee, 1902. Sergeant Mackay examined. (No. 16.) The Chairman : I may say that witnesses before Committees are not sworn, the Speaker having ruled that all evidence given before Committees is equivalent to being given upon oath. It bears all the pains and penalties of evidence given in a Court of justice. 1. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones.] How long have you been in the Police Force?— Twenty-six years on about the 14th May next. 2. How long were you in Nelson ?—About three years and eight months. 3. When did the petitioners, ex-Constables Burrell and Durbridge, come to Nelson—during your time ?—Yes. 4. In what condition did you find Nelson on your arrival there, from a police point of view—l mean as to the general conduct of the people?—l found that the larrikin element there was pretty strong; in fact, numerous complaints reached me after going there. 5. You had had experience of other towns ?—I had. I left Christchurch to go there. 6. How did it compare with Christchurch ?—lt was very lax. 7. Worse than in Christchurch ? —Yes. 8. How many constables had you under you at Nelson?—At first I had six. 9. Who were they? —Constables O'Brien, McGrath, Culnane, Mac Donald, Bird, and Mounted Constable Kelly. 10. What changes were made after your arrival ?—At the time I went to take charge another man was sent there named Phelan. He went as Gaoler. 11. Was he an additional man ?—Yes, he would be. 12. What changes occurred after your arrival—who left and who came?— Constable O'Brien went out on compensation, I think. Kelly went to Dunedin. Phelan died ;he was a consumptive when he went there. Culnane went to the Coast somewhere. 13. By whom were these men replaced, as new men in the district ?—By Constables Kemp, Durbridge, and Burrell. 14. Put them in the order in which they came? —I fancy that is the order. 15. Did Durbridge and Burrell come together? —No; they came separately. I forgot to mention Aldridge. He was one of the new men. 16. With regard to larrikinism, which in your opinion is the best class of policeman to deal with it—young men of, say, twenty-three or twenty-four, or men more advanced in life ?—They took practically no notice of the old men. 17. What is your general experience as to coping with larrikinism : do you lay it down as a general rule that an old man is not so good as a young man ?—I should say that he is not. I had to go round the blocks myself for months and warn them off the corners. 18. If you see young fellows standing about corners, do you call that larrikinism ? —No; I should call that loitering in the street. 19. What do you call larrikinism ?—Any one following another up and passing remarks and cheeking him. 20. Do you know Mr. Marmaduke Wilson?—l cannot say that I ever saw him. 21. Do you know what reputation he bears in Nelson ?—I do not know. 22. Have you never heard anything about him ?—No, further than with regard to a complaint about his windows being broken.