I.—lc

18

[MAJOR SMITtI;

284. The fact is he has nominally been in your Department five months without payment, and you did not know it ?—No. 285. Have you any others in that position ? —No, sir. 286. Who was the officer immediately between you and Captain Clark? —Captain Joyce. 287. Then, if Captain Clark has stated that "it was you who gave him instructions, will you say it is correct? —I may have given Captain Joyce instructions. I never discussed the question of pay. 288. If Captain Clark says you gave instructions and not Captain Joyce, is it correct ?—Very likely. The instructions would come from me ; I should be responsible. 289. And the question of emolument—you did not make any inquiries about ? —No, sir. I knew if there was any question it would come back at once. I concluded Captain Clark drew his pay without any hitch. 290. If the Commandant said he gave instructions and this order was given to you, would that be correct [order produced] ?—Yes; it came back to him and he gave it to me. 291. Did you know where it was all these months? —When Captain McGee accepted the employment it was attached to the papers. 292. You see by the document there was no money mentioned? —No money. 293. This is an authority to have a particular work done ? —Yes. 294. You knew nothing about it till this dispute, and then you were asked to supply Ministerial authority, and produced that?— Yes. 295. Mr. B. McKenzie.] Would you mind telling the Committee who was responsible for the vouchers certified ?—I think I referred to Captain Clark's claim. This is the claim for the total amount, and not for the salary. When you draw your salary you draw it on a different form. 296. Who was responsible for Captain Clark's pay ?—The Under-Secretary for Defence was responsible. This is different from salary ;itis a claim for certain payments. 297. Why did you not tell us so the other day ? —I am not responsible. 298. Did you certify to any vouchers other than this £32 ?—I certified to the amended one. 299. Did you certify to the £277 claim ?—Yes. 300. And then did you certify to the £32?— Yes. 301. Did you certify that was all Captain Clark was entitled to ? —For this work that item is correct. 302. Why did you certify to this claim of £277 17s. 6d. Why did you certify to both?— The first one was refused by the Audit, and Captain Clark put in an amended claim. 303. Why did you tell the Committee the last day you were here that this voucher was certified to by you ? —I certified on the 26th June this year. 304. What about the other one—£277 ?—There is no date to that. 305. Here is another voucher for the same work—£l99—to which you certified?— Yes. 306. So that you certified to three vouchers for three different amounts ?—They are not quite the same. 307. Can you give the Committee any information as to which of these amounts Captain Clark is entitled to ? Does that £4 per week refer to Ministerial authority ?—Yes. 308. Supposing you had authority to pay £4 per week, the question of rank is not involved ?— No. 309. If a voucher passes the office without being certified to by you or other superior officer, who pays it ?—lt must be certified to by a superior officer. 310. Bt. Hon. B. J. Seddon.] The pay-abstract has to be first passed by the Minister?— Yes. 311. Whose duty is it to prepare the pay-abstracts and send them down?— Each officer prepares and signs his own pay-sheet. 312. Are you responsible for what the Commandant authorises?— Yes. 313. In this case there ought to be a pay-abstract prepared by Captain Clark?—Yes. 314. And then through you it ought to come to me ?—Yes. 315. The Chairman.] Did you know, when you said each officer sent in his claim for pay direct, it was not correct ?—lt is correct. 316. Bt. Hon. B. J. Seddon.] Before the salary abstract is certified as correct has it not to receive Ministerial approval ?—Yes. 317. This is the paper I received [showing a document]? —Yes. 318. This is approved, and is a standing order to the Paymaster?— Yes. 319. But before it is paid he has to have a statement of claim on that ?—Yes. 320. The Chairman.] It must be approved by the Minister before the Paymaster can pay?— Yes. 321. Last week you gave us to understand that each officer sent in his claim to the Paymaster and was paid ?—That is after it is approved. 322. And you knew all this?—l knew that; but lam afraid you misunderstood me. 323. Do you keep any records at all?—Oh, yes, sir. 324. Do you keep papers, vouchers, files ?—Yes. 325. Nature of employment ?—Yes. 326. And the amount of remuneration ?—Yes ; but the Under-Secretary most likely keeps that. 327. The Under-Secretary does not know if you employ a person unless advised by you ?— That is so. 328. Then when you engaged Captain Clark you said it was to prepare the medal roll. Have you no document showing you engaged him ? Did the engagement not intimate the amount to be received?— Captain Clark was doing work in our office for his own contingent, and when finished he was put on to other work.