I.—4c.

6

[T.^SCOTI , .

rights over them all. We simply ask that we be allowed to apply to the Warden in the usual way for those rights if we require them. 94. You mean to say that knowingly you propose a Bill to take power from streams absolutely unlimited ?—We cannot do that if the Warden has" the right 95. That is not the question. You say that you have made no estimate of the power you require, with the exception of that required for tramways ?—That is so. 96. Why have you not made an estimate of the power you are likely to be able to sell ?—We cannot do that until we know exactly where we shall bring it in from. 97. I know that; but surely any ordinary set of men would have a rough idea of what they would be likely to sell, so as to know whether it would be worth while to go to an expenditure of several thousands of pounds for bringing in power ?—lf we could bring it in and supply it in the city at £7 10s. per horse-power we could dispose of probably 500-horse power; and if we could reduce the price, the more we could supply. 98. I take it that is why you ask for such powers over the water ?—Yes. 99. Have you an estimate of the power from the Lee Stream ?—Yes ; delivered in town under the present scheme per 1,000-horse power. 100. Is that the full supply from the stream, or what you propose to use ? —That would be the full drought supply of the stream. That could be extended by erecting storage reservoirs. 101. What do you propose to take from the Taieri?—The utmost we could take from the Taieri, delivered in town electrically, would be 1,200-horse power. 102. Is it not 600 heads of water?— Three hundred and fifty heads is the drought estimate and by putting in a 36 ft. weir Hon. Mr. McGowan : I thought I saw mention of 600 heads. 103. Mr. J. Allen.] There is a difference between drought and full wet season supplies ? —lt would be 600 with the ordinary flow, but the drought supply was estimated at three hundred and fifty heads by both our late City Engineer and Mr. Robert Hay. 104. Hon. Mr. McGowan.] Your present intention is, though you take the rights, not to use them unless you think the scheme is going to pay ?— Unless it will pay us to bring the power in. 105. You think there is no injustice to the public generally, and miners particularly, and to the districts in which these rivers are, that you should have those rights for a period of five years without using them ?—Not the slightest; I see no objection whatever. 106. Do you think anybody else would be likely to look at it in the same light ?—I do not think that any one, with the exception of a syndicate, would be likely to take such a scheme up. 107. What would be the difference between your holding the right for five years and a syndicate doing so ?—We hold it for the benefit of the public. 108. And what would a syndicate ?—For the benefit of their own pockets. 109. But you have just explained to the Committee that the City Council of Dunedin will do this if it will pay them, and the more it pays them the more they can reduce the cost to their own people, and the more they can make out of it ; so that the only difference so far as the income is concerned is that in the one case it would go to the city for its own benefit, and in the other case to a syndicate ?—ln the one case it would be for fifty-three thousand people, taking all the suburbs into consideration, while a syndicate may represent only ten people. That is the only difference that I see. 110. I do not see much difference, except that in the one case it is a borough and in the other a syndicate ?—I may say that the feeling of my Council is that had the Government stepped in some four or five years ago and taken all the water-rights, probably it would have been better for every one; but that is too late now, and we must either go in for it ourselves or let the rights lapse. 111. I think that, even taking your own view of the case, the Government would, perhaps, do right now to step in and help you to get what you require ; but you appear to require so much that, in the interests of mining, apart from other interests, I think it would be necessary to endeavour to curtail your requirements ?—We have no objection whatever to be curtailed as far as mining is concerned —not the slightest —because we are fully convinced that we shall not affect mining at all. We have no objection whatever to any clause that you like to put in the Bill to reserve mining rights, because we are thoroughly satisfied we shall not interfere with mining at all in carrying out our scheme. 112. If you once get what you require under this Bill you have it for all time; and you ask for such indefinite things. That is why there is opposition. I dare say that the feeling, if you did not ask for such indefinite things, would be to aid the city ; but as it is, in the interests of the public, some attention must be paid to it ? —Just so. Sooner than jeopardize the Bill, probably it would be better to confine it to the streams that we have mentioned. We thought that giving the Warden discretionary power was sufficient safeguard for any outside body, or even the Government. Of course, the use of electricity for motive power is in its infancy in New Zealand, and no one has any idea to what extent it will go. 113. I suppose that, in none of the instances in which you are taking power, by the exercise of that power will the water go into any other stream ?—ln none whatever. 114. It will in each case return to the same stream?— When the Bill was drafted there was such an intention. We thought at one time that we could get the waters of the Deep Stream into the Lee Stream ; but we found that impossible, so that can be struck out. 115. I think that may assist you in getting the Bill through, because, if the water is returned to the streams, in many cases mining operations will not be interfered with ?—That was the only reason for putting the clause into the Bill. We thought we might supplement the Lee Stream from the Deep Stream, but after survey we found that was impossible. 116. Would there be any objection to the City of Dunedin leasing the water-rights at a small rental ?—lt depends entirely on the rental. The power from the Lee Stream alone will cost,