1.-10.

40

J. G. LAUEENSON.]

241. Was it understood that the members of the Bakers' Union were going to be loyal to the association in its struggle with Steven and Co. ? —Yes, I dare say it was. 242. Since the Flour-millers' Association was formed has not the price of bread in Dunedin been uniformly higher than it was, say, for the-two years preceding?— Yes, very much. Of course, we could not have existed at 2Jd. for the 4 lb. loaf. 243. How many loaves of bread do you get out of a sack of flour?—-About an average of sixtysix. 244. Can you not always get sixty-eight ? —Well, I was told of a man yesterday who got seventy-five, but it all depends upon the weight of his bread. 245. Would not sixty-eight be a very fair number of 4 lb. loaves to take out of a sack of flour? —It would all depend upon what they were weighed at. 246. How many do you take out of a sack of flour ? —I do not take particular notice. 247. You do not keep records ? —I have records sufficient to enable me to know whether I am making a living. There is a discrepancy in the weighing of bread by different men. lam invariably weighing a couple of ounces heavier than others. 248. What are you paying for a sack of flour? —19s. 6d. 249. If you took sixty-eight 4 lb. loaves out of a sack of flour would it not leave you a very high margin of profit ?—I think not. 250. What are you charging for bread ? —6d. and 6Jd. 251. From a sack of flour you will take at least £1 15s. in bread ?—That is near enough. 252. Do you sell your bread on an average of 6|d. ?—No, the average price would be 6Jd. 253. That would be about £1 15s. a sack?— Yes. 254. And if you pay 19s. 6d. for your flour that leaves ?—l4s. profit; but there are the expenses of manufacture and delivery to be taken into account. 255. How much does it cost you to bake?—l have not got the statement with me, and I cannot give you that off-hand. 256. You say that Steven and Co. made themselves unpopular and bullied you ?—Yes. 257. Can you give us instances ?—They told us that they were going to become bakers, and to run us. 258. Was not that after you had refused to purchase their flour?—l do not know about any refusal. 259. Had not your association agreed not to buy Steven and Co.'s flour while they were fighting the Millers' Association ?—There was no resolution passed not to buy Steven and Co.'s flour. 260. Then, why did you pass a resolution saying that the members of your union were now free to buy Steven and Co.'s flour if they chose, if they had not been prevented before?— They were not free to buy flour from millers who supplied undersellers. 261. Were you not helping the association to bring Steven and Co. into line generally?—We told the association that it was their business and not ours. 262. You say that tbe bullying began by their threatening to start a bakery ?—Yes. 263. Why did they say that ?—Because we were not running after them with orders. They simply thought that because we were taking a large quantity of their flour before they joined the association we were going to chase them with orders after they had seceded from the association. 264. There is a letter dated the 7th March from Steven and Co. to the president of the Master Bakers' Union in reference to that resolution : did you receive that letter ? —Yes. 265. What happened to that letter?—l passed it on to the union. 266. Did you not pass a resolution on receipt of that saying that your members were now free to deal with Steven and Co. if they wished ?—That was not the resolution. There never was such a resolution carried as they accuse us of. That letter of theirs is a kind of iron hand in a kid glove. In fact, that letter put the backs of our members up properly. The resolution was to this effect, so far as I can remember it: that on Steven and Co. complying with our Eule 24—they had been annoying us a good deal by advertising and by various other methods, bear in mind—we were open to do business with them. 267. What had they been advertising?— About the price of flour. Their object was to burst up our union so that the old order of things would prevail. The resolution was that they were to desist from supplying cutters, keep to the association prices and terms, and to stop advertising and newspaper correspondence. Those were the terms, and they willingly accepted them. I have got that letter. 268. They did accept?— Yes. 269. In your examination this morning you said that you could not control your members ?— We cannot direct the business of our members or dictate to them where they should get their flour. 270. But under Eule 24 you did control them ?—lf a man supplies a cutter we can control our members in buying from that man. 271. Then, what you said before was wrong? —No; I say that we cannot tell our members to go and buy from any particular miller. 272. You said that you told Steven and Co. that if they paid you 2J per cent, you would sell their flour ?—That was when they came to us complaining. They were always " squeaking " about our executive not buying off them, and I said we could not bare all the blame for our members not buying off them. 273. The Millers' Association would have sold for them at 2J per cent. ?—Yes. 274. And if they paid you that amount they might just as well have become members of the association ?—Yes. 275. How many times did you see the executive of the Flour-millers' Association ? —I have seen them on various occasions.