I.—3a

7

66. Otherwise they would part with it ?—I do not think they are satisfied with their title as an occupation license. They do not think that the land belongs to them, under the Act of 1892. 67. Although they have an occupation license they do not value that, and they will not make use of the land. They only use it to raise money ? —Yes, but the restrictions prevent them parting with it. 68. The Chairman] Otherwise they would have parted with it ?—Some of them would. 69T Mr. \A. L. D. Fraser.] You say some of these Native lease their lands surreptitiously to Europeans, while some others whose lands are leased by the Public Trustee go to Europeans and give orders on the Public Trustee ?—Yes, some of them do. 70. Hon. Mr. Carroll.] . Then you think it would be better for the Public Trustee to lease such land than to allow it to remain under occupation license, but that Maoris should have the preference ? — Yes, that is my opinion.

Friday, 19th August, 1904. Examination of Kuini Wi Rangipupu continued. (No. 2.) 1. The Chairman.] Will you proceed with your statement, Mrs. Thompson, where you left off yesterday ? I would like to explain my answers yesterday to the Minister more plainly with regard to the pieces or portions of land which were set aside for the occupation of my own people. It was not my wish that the Public Trustee was to administer or manage those portions of land. I would have preferred to have the Natives manage those lands themselves. I now reproduce the lease which I put before the Committee yesterday [Lease produced] and this map [Map produced], in which are shown the subdivisions made by the Court in 1888. And it is in connection with these lands that I now produce this account, which I showed to the Committee yesterday. [Account produced.] I produce this account because it is more complete —accounts in connection with the other portions of land have not been rendered so fully as in this account —and that is why I produce it for the inspection of the Committee. In connection with these other lands Ido not know what deductions have been made. I have been given no particulars. Last December I was entitled to £31 for six months, but I only received £21 2. Hon. Mr. Carroll.] First of all you get a notice to say that for six months' rent there is so much due to you ? —Yes. 3. You say the Public Trustee notified you that there was £31 due to you for all your shares in lands under his administration I—Yes.1 —Yes. 4. That is for the six months up to the 31st December last % —Yes. 5. And what you actually received by cheque after the deductions were taken off was £21 ? —Yes. 6. Have you got the accounts for the last six months, ending the 30th June ? —No, I have not got those accounts. I pay a rent of £8 every six months for the land lam occupying, although that land is my own land. It is land granted to me by the Crown for my maintenance. On account of the grant being restricted I cannot sell or lease. By the Act of 1892 my right to the soil was taken away from me. I had spent large sums for survey fees and Court fees prior to the year 1892, and I ought to have received, in my opinion, an absolute grant of this land to myself. But this right was taken away from me by the Act of 1892, and because I was actually, as it were, living on sufferance on this land, and unable to keep off trespassers, theJPublic Trustee advised me to take a lease of my own land. And for that reason I accepted this lease. This land which I hold on lease is 40 acres 2 roods, for'which I have to pay a rent of £16 a year. In this block —the Hapotiki Block —I own 112J acres. "7. Hon. Mr. Carroll.] In what block ?—The Hapotiki Block. This land belongs to myself and mv relations. 8. Do you mean that your own individual share is 40 acres, and that you share with other members of your hapu the balance of 72 acres ? —My share has been allocated —cut out. The whole block is 300 acres, and my interest amounts to 112 _ acres. I occupy 40 acres of this under a lease : the rest has not been allocated ; it is still in the general lease. 9. You said just now that your interest in that block was 112J acres. Was that your own interest or your family interest"? Do you own the 112J acres in your own right ?—Part of it I occupy, and part of it is leased. I occupy the 40 acres. The balance is leased to Europeans. lam also interested in the Hapotiki Main Block, which is a block of 4,174 acres. 10. Will you give us, first of all, the whole block, and then tell us what was cut off for yourself, what was cut off for your family, and the balance that was left ? —I now speak of the Hapotiki Block, and the shares to which I succeeded in that block. I have succeeded to six persons in the block, and my share now is 33 acres 1 rood 30 perches. This is the main block. It is called the Hapotiki Main Block, and it contains 4,174 acres. I receive £3 14s. sd. every half-year from this land—from the 33 acres 1 rood 30 perches. It is very good land. I cannot tell how much money has been deducted for rates and taxes and so on. Ido not get a full account in connection with this land. In another block, the Ngatihawe Block, containing 2,047 acres, I have 5 acres. I have succeeded to this land. I receive Bs. 7d. per half-year from this land. 11. Mr. Parata.] That is after rates, taxes, and commission have been deducted ?—Yes. Then, in the Mataikahawai Block, containing 2,403 acres, I own 20 acres 1 rood 26 perches. I succeeded to this by succession. I get 18s. 4d. per half-year from this land. 12. That is after the deduction of rates, taxes, &c. ?—Yes. That is after the deduction of rates, taxes, and commission. From my lands I only receive £21 13s. 2d. every half-year. lam entitled to £31 ss. 6d. per half-year, but after the deductions are made I only receive £21 13s. 2d. 13. The Chairman.] Are you furnished with a separate account for each of these blocks ?—No; as I have already said, I cannot get accounts. I have only been able to get an account in connection with one block, That is the account I have produced. They do not give me any accounts. They