1.—14b.

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f.T. G. WILSON.

very much. I think he might easily in the country districts give a lesson in the morning and another in the afternoon, to begin with. I want to see the thing started. We have so little detail knowledge on the subject that unless you make a start and find these things out by experience, it seems to me that it is of little use my offering an opinion. 102. Mr. Hardy.] You have spoken a good deal about peripatetic teachers. Do you really think it is a good plan to get these teachers to go about to teach the teachers?- I was not supposing they were going to teach the teachers. I only said in reply to a question that during the time the peripatetic teacher was showing the children what to do with certain things the teacher would be observing, and with his trained mind and knowledge he would pick up very quickly what was going on; and by that means the peripatetic teacher would be teaching the teachers. I do not propose that he should go round and teach the teachers separately. 103. As you would like effect to be given to your recommendation, do you not think it would be better for these subjects to be dealt with in the training colleges ? —For the teachers ? 104. Yes? —That eventually must be done, if the thing is to be of any effect at all. It was in reply to a question by Mr. Allen that I said that the teacher who did not have a special knowledge of this kind—who had had no opportunity of being trained in this way —would be able to see how this peripatetic teacher was imparting rhe knowledge he had gained to the children. The teacher would only be watching. You could not teach the teacher by having another peripatetic teacher. That would be a wasteful process. You must gather the teachers together to teach them. 105. Would it not be better to train the teachers to teach the children themselves, rather than get these peripatetic teachers to go round and teach the teachers, because you would have a sort of divided authority? There would be no divided authority, because the peripatetic man would be able to have half a day-, and he would do certain things. 106. Do you not think it a good plan for the Boards of Education to almost compel the teachers to go to the centres once a week? —I think so. 107. For the purpose of meeting and exchanging ideas? —1 think it a very valuable thing, and not only that, but I think the teachers are very willing to do it. 108. Instead of the travelling teacher going about, would it not be better to fix him at a place and bring the teachers down to him? —You could do that too. You could have him going round the country on the week-days, and bring him into town on the Saturdays. 109. You were speaking of drill. Do you know that the Defence Department at the present time places drill-instructors at the disposal of the Boards of Education for the purpose of instructing the teachers? I just mention this in order to show that v r ou were making a mistake? —Is that so? I msv nay that my suggestion is only a means towards an end. If you .wait until you get teachers' colleges, and you teach those teachers, and they have to go awa3 - and teach the other teachers, you will have waited five or six years. Ido not want to do that. I want to begin this year. 1 feel that if we do not start we shall go on discussing as to the best means of doing things. Let us find out the best means by experience, and I think eventually it will come about that we shall have training colleges in our midst and the teachers will be taught there, and they will then go out into the country. Let us make a start. I do not want to say that my suggestion is to be permanent at all. Ido not think it will be —it cannot be, in fact. 110. The Chairman.] Throughout your speech and your evidence, Mr. Wilson, you seemed to lay the whole onus of giving all this kind of education on the State —the providing of money, the providing of teachers —everything is to be done by the State. What would the Farmers' Union do, what are the County Councils prepared to do in the matter —anything at all!— Why should they be prepared to do anything when all provision is made by the State for other education ? 111. Let me put it in this way: is there a country in the world where the matter is not undertaken locally first? In France it is undertaken by the departments; in other places by the counties. In all these places is there not some provision made by the local departments or divisions for some work in that direction? —We have the local divisions in the Education Boards. But I do not quite understand your question. 112. You referred to the French system. In France, I understand, the department contributes a certain sum of money —which is subsidised by the Government--towards the teaching of agriculture in its district. Are the counties prepared to do anything here?- I cannot answer for (lie counties. You have a technical school here in Wellington, for instance, and you find the plumbers and so on have got certain classes. 113. They pay fees?— Well, if Parliament in its wisdom thrusts upon the County Councils the necessity of paying, they will have to pay for this education. But do not let us squabble about who is to pay for it. The sum will be a very small one if the end is to be a great one ; and if Parliament says, after considering the matter! that the County Councils should pay for it,' make them pay. 114. It is not a question of payment. The point is that if a thing is wanted, and people show it is wanted by being prepared to pay for it, there will be more work done- there will lie better work done by people who value a thing than by people upon whom it is thrust?-Yes. 115. We have the same trouble in many branches of our educational work. Can you suggest nothing by which something like local payment could be provided ?-That is a big question. I would not like to tackle that. It is a big question of policy which I have not considered. All that I suggest as a beginning is to make the experiment in the way I have indicated. It would cost a small sum of money, which ought to be provided by the State. 116. What sum of money ?—lf you take the Wellington District alone, or any other, and observe the experiment, it will cost you at the outside £1,000. If you multiplied that sum byfour or five and made the experiment with four or five men it would cost £4,000 or £s,ooo—sav £1,000 per man. " '