Gh—i

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came to you. My Eluropean tenants refused to advance money to me, and told me to go to Mr. Bayley. You advanced the money to me probably because you wanted the ss. interest. You never refused me when I was in trouble. I did not ask you to lend me money on Saturday. You lent me 2s. that day. I have paid you ss. in the pound for all the money shown on receipts I have produced. Some of them relate to my mother and my wife, whose affairs I manage. I received the money from you to pay other tradesmen. Sometimes I sell cattle, and receive money from auctioneers. I object to the 55., but I must get the money somewhere, and there is nothing to do but go to you. Commission adjourned to 2 p.m. Resumed at 2 p.m. Cross-examination continued: At the time I got the money I did not complain about the ss. Ido not complain now. I have come here because Mr. Paterson asked me to come. I know the custom of having a Maori bank in the pa. Its object is to buy necessaries of life. The bank lends money at rate of 2s. in the pound for six months, but the borrower has to give security—a horse, or something of that kind. The bank charges 4s. in the pound every three months, and the borrower has to give security. It does not exist now. We used to draw rent from Fisher, but when Mr. Bayley came he got our cheques, and the bank ceased to exist. Re-examined by Mr. Fisher : I had to borrow money from Bayley, although my tenants owed me money. Corrigan was one of the tenants. I wanted to buy some cattle, and wanted Corrigan to lend me the money. He referred me to Bayley. Eventually Corrigan paid me rent. Ido not know why he did not pay me when I was forced to go to Mr. Bayley. In all the amounts shown by the receipts produced to-day I paid ss. in the pound to Mr. Bayley. When application was made to the Maori bank for a loan, 2s. in the pound was charged for six months, or as the Committee may have arranged. On a second application, 4s. in the pound for three months was charged. To the Commissioner : The funds of the Maori bank were collected by us. We paid in various sums. Hugh McKoy (sworn): I live at Normanby. lam a butcher. I have been in Normanby many years. Previous to being in business I was employed by Mr. Tarrant, of Normanby. While in his employ I did business with Natives, and had no difficulty in getting payment from them. I used to give them credit to extent of £80 or £90 every six months. Payment was made to me by the Natives when they received their rents, but latterly I have had difficulty in getting £10. That difficulty has continued on account of the presence of Mr. Bayley when rents are paid. I used to go to the pas to collect accounts. I have seen Mr. Bayley sometimes driving to the pa with Mr. Fisher. Mr. Bayley is sometimes inside, sometimes outside, but he seems to have such influence that it does not matter where he is—he gets the cheque. When I bought the business some £110 or £115 was owing by Natives, who had been paying regularly before the advent of Mr. Bayley. Afterwards I could not get payment. Mr. Tarrant sold these debts to me for £25. Some I have collected. I put the depreciation down to Mr. Bayley's operations. I have seen a great many Maoris in actual want. I have refused to give credit to those who borrow money from Mr, Bayley. To Commissioner: I began to refuse eight years ago, but I find sometimes, where I have given credit to those who I thought were not borrowing from him, that Mr. Bayley took their cheque. Examination continued: I should be prepared to give all the Natives credit if this borrowingwere stopped, and I believe I should be paid at the end of six months. Ido not think Natives look much to the future. They would not mind what interest they paid if they could get a loan to-day. I have sued one or two Natives because I could not get payment. Cross-examined: Very little is owing to me now by Natives. I have not been giving credit. I think I collected somewhere about £75 of the £110. Some I wrote off. I always attend on payday. Ido not think there have been three cases in which I got paid in preference to you. Natives, when they get their cheques, usually walk to you and give you their cheques. You seem to have them very well trained. I very seldom see any wrangling. There are some Natives, Nauwara, who are in want. One of them, Rori, told me they were living on flour and water. I did come to you to see if you would pay David's account. Ido not consider the Natives intemperate. To Commissioner, at Mr. Bayley's request: Mr. Bayley collected some of these debts for me at his usual fee of ss. in the pound. To Commissioner : Ten per cent, is the usual commission; but very few can get the money from Natives. William Henry Webley (sworn): I live at Normanby. lam a baker. I have been in Normanby some years, and have done a good bit of business with Natives. I have had difficulty in getting payment. I have been in business some two years and a half. Before that I was journeyman baker in Normanby for about two years. So far as I know, there was then the same difficulty in collecting debts. So far as I can see, Mr. Bayley is the cause. I went to the pa last pay-day to collect some £20. I got £2 9s. The Natives gave their cheques to Mr. Bayley. In consequence of the difficulty of collection I have refused credit to the Natives. They frequently apply for it. I would be prepared to give it if they handled the money themselves. Cross-examined by Mr. Bayley: I have had four and a half years' experience among Natives. They say they will pay when Fisher comes, and when Fisher comes they give the cheques to you. I object"to their giving you the lot. I think they should share it out among us. Sometimes they pay cash. They may have got the cash from you. I should probably not say anything if they paid me instead of you. Frank Andrews (sworn): I live at Normanby, and am a butcher. I have been in business in Normanby three years and a half. I used to give Natives six months' credit on condition they paid " when Fisher came." Latterly I have ceased to give credit, because I found I could not get the money. I have given credit to very few —only to those who have paid up. I went to the pa.