GK-β.

42

L .I. THOBNTON.

190. If you had them you would go in for manual and technical instruction?-—We have never been opposed to it. 191. It comes back to this: it is a question of money?— Undoubtedly. 192. You had a time-table in the schoolroom: can you let us have a copy of that to show how the boys are occupied each day ?—Yes [Exhibit No. 39]. 193. Mr. Bird.] Can you tell us what is the average number per year for the past ten years of students who have passed the matriculation examination ?—I cannot tell you accurately, but I should say, roughly speaking, three or four. 194. What has been the average attendance at the school for the same period?—lt would be about sixty-eight to seventy. 195. Then there are sixty-four on the average annually who have never achieved the end' which you have in view when you set up a classical standard, the goal of which is matriculation? —I never anticipated that every boy who entered is going to pass matriculation. 196. I should say, if you set up the standard to be matriculation, every boy is ultimatelyintended, if he shows the ability, to enter for the matriculation examination?— Yes, if he shows the ability. 197. I want to establish the fact that a very small percentage annually pass: then should not the greatest good to the greatest number be the ultimate consideration in the drawing-tip of the syllabus in this school? —The greatest good to the greatest number, undoubtedly. 198. Since the majority, from whatever cause, never pass the examination, have they not a right to have their special weaknesses considered and a programme adapted to their special weakness or special need ?—But their special needs, in the vast majority of cases, are met, because they are provided with a good elementary education which equips them for the battle of life. 199. Then, you admit now that an elementary education equips the majority of Maori boys for the battle of life? —I do. But at the same time, to take an illustration, there are hundreds of students go up to Oxford every year and only one is Double First. You would not say Oxford is a failure because she does not turn out a hundred Double Firsts. I maintain that the sixty-four who do not pass receive the object for which they came to the school; they receive an education. The fact that they do not pass the matriculation does not affect that to any great extent. A boy is worked up to the matriculation standard, and worked in the matriculation class; he may not pass that examination, but he has all the benefits of the education, and these benefits do him a great deal of service in life, almost as much as if he actually passed. 200. But do you think these benefits are essential to his after-life, which, if he fails to qualify for a learned profession, must of necessity be a life of a Maori amongst a Maori community; in other words, is it necessary, if a boy is not intended for the learned professions, he should have to spend part of his time in learning Latin and the higher subjects?— These boys who have gone on to the higher part of the school, even if they do not pass matriculation, often enter into lines of life where these acquirements are necessary and helpful. They go into lawyers' offices. You will not say that a boy in a lawyer's office is not the better for having a little knowledge of Latin. 201. Then it appears from some of the answers that there is a sifting process going on with a view to selecting candidates showing the most promise, and you said, in answer lo Mr. Ngata, the sifting takes place about the fourth class. If the sifting were made earlier—that is to say, from the time a boy presented himself at the institution—would not those who eventually drop out of the race for matriculation be more likely to benefit by having other forms of instruction ?—We do not argue they would not. We are only too glad to entertain any proposal to their being so educated. 202. Of course, you can see that is the proper point to introduce a variation in the course of instruction to provide for those who are eventually to go into some learned profession ?—Yes; but you do not imply that we are in any way opposed to a technical education in the true sense of the term, because that is not the case. 203. You attach a considerable amount of importance to the resolutions and doings of the Te Aute College Old Boys' Association ?—I do, as affecting the welfare of the whole race. 204. Have they, to your knowledge, ever passed resolutions in favour of technical education being given ?—They have. 205. Could you give me the tenor of their resolutions? —They are simply of opinion that technical education should be introduced into Te Aute College. The whole matter has been explained to them at various conferences. 206. That is to say, that the old boys, who have themselves passed through the College, are of opinion that technical education should be given there? —Quite so. But these same boys also made it very clear that by technical education they did not mean that Te Aute College should be turned into a blacksmith's shop or a carpenter's shop. They do not want technical education—and the resolutions of the conferences point to that—to jeopardize the existing standard. Their views are very much the same as the trustees themselves have taken up. There are a great many varying definitions of technical education. The man in the street considers it is one thing, and the men on the Commission think another. 207. I think you said, in reply to Mr. Lee, that the Department wants technical instruction given to every boy indiscriminately?— Yes, I think that is my impression gained from the departmental correspondence. 208. Was any exception made in the case of any number of scholars? —To the best of my knowledge, no exception was ever made at all. The condition was four hours per week for every Government scholar, but for the rest the Government were willing to accept two hours and a half per week. 209. Was there any exception made in regard to cases especially approved by the InspectorGeneral? —-Yes, some exceptions are provided for.