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32. Do you know anything about the letting-value of the estate in one block on a lease for a number of years?— No. 33; Has the Archdeacon taken a personal interest in the school?— Yes; I think he takes a great interest in the school. 34. Have the Natives benefited in consequence of what he has done for the school during all these years ?—Yes, those who have been educated have been benefited. 35. Mr. Ellison.] You said the land was given for the benefit of the children?— Yes. 36. Was it for the children of the Heretaunga—that is, the Hawke's Bay—district only, or for the benefit of children throughout the whole colony 2—l understood it was for the benefit of the children of Hawke's Bay District only; for instance, for the fourteen children who went to Otaki, and suchlike. 37. Are you aware that they send European children to Te Aute nowadays? —Yes. 38. What have you got to say about that? —When I saw the children of the whole Island going there, and also Europeans, I came to the conclusion that this trust must be for all children throughout the colony. 39. But at the time the land was given what were the conditions mentioned?—lt was stated that the land was given for the children of school age in the Hawke's Bay District, and not for any other purpose. 40. Have the persons in charge of the school asked for payment for the admission of any Hawke's Bay children to the school: have they sent them the application form asking them if they were prepared to pay?—l have not heard about it. I had a child at Te Aute, and Paraire Tomoana was sent there by his father, and we never filled up any form of admission. 41. The Chairman.] Did you see Sir George Grey and Bishop Selwyn at Te Aute?—No; I do not remember their arrival. 42. You were not present at any conference between Sir George Grey and Bishop Selwyn and Mr. Williams and the Natives about giving the land?—No; I do not remember. 43. Mr. Hogg.] Is your principal objection to the management the fact that the school is open to the whole colony?— Yes; I objected at first, but when I found the school was to be for the children of all the colony I ceased my objection. 44. Do you think the intention of the Maoris in giving the land was to confine the benefit to the children of the district? —Yes; that is what I heard. 45. Do you also object to the very young children being excluded? —I have no objection to the non-admittance of the smaller children. I think they are too small, and perhaps it is better they should not go there. 46. Are there schools to meet the requirements of the younger people?— Yes. In recent times primary schools for children have been started. 47. Do you know if any Maori children are now growing up without receiving an education in some school or another?— Yes; I know of cases of children not attending school. 48. Is that because they cannot get admission, or is it through their own fault? —Perhaps it is because they do not want to go to school. Some go, and some are lazy and do not go. 49. Is there any one going round to compel them to go to school?— Yes, there are officers for that purpose, but they cannot get some of these children to go to school. 50. Are you satisfied with the way in which this trust has been managed, or do you think it could be improved?—l always looked on Mr. Williams as manager of Te Aute, but in recent times I have been informed there are trustees. 51. If the Natives themselves were on the trust, do you think it would be managed to better advantage?—l think it would be a good thing for some Maoris to be put on the trust. 52. Mr. Lee.] Do you know of boys who have been refused admission to Te Aute? —I have heard of applicants who have been told there was no room. They had to wait, but afterwards they were admitted when there was room. 53. Do you know that boys are not admitted to Te Aute now until they have reached the top class —that is, the Sixth Standard—of the Government Native schools?—l do not know. That has all been done in recent times after the establishment of Maori primary schools. 54. Have you any objection to Te Aute being used for the advanced Maori boys only?-—I think that is the proper way to do it. 55. Mr. Eliott.] Did any of your children go to Te Aute? —I had one child there and a grandchild. 56. Was that in Mr. Thornton's time? —Yes. I brought my child home again because he became ill. 57. How long was the child there? —Six or seven years. 58. Were you satisfied with the instruction given to the boy?— Yes. 59. Had you other children who did not go to school? —Taranaki was a child of mine, but he was living with another person, and this person would not let him go to school. My daughters were sent to Hukarere, and I had a granddaughter at Hukarere. 60. Who have done the best for themselves, the boy who went to Te Aute or the boy who did not go? —The one who stayed at home. The boy who went to Te Aute would have done very well. He passed all the standards, but he was sickly and died young. 61. Was any deed or document signed by the Natives when they gave the land to W r illiams? —No. 62. You also told us there were complaints about the rents the Archdeacon was paying: was that fbr Native leases or for Te Aute trust land?— Both in regard to Te Aute lands and in regard to other Maori lands he leased, some of which he eventually bought. 63. The What were the complaints?— One objection was this: he leased land and eventually bought the land. The objection they had about Te Aute land was this: that Mr. Williams never explained to them what rent he was paying.
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