E. KOHEEE.]

73

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men out of the total of, say, five hundred boys. That is a very small percentage when you take into consideration that one of the objects of the school is to give religious instruction. So that if any complaint is to be made on that side, it may be made by the other side that there are not enough of them. At present there are five Te Aute boys in training for the Church, including myself. Reference has been made to the inclusion of pakeha boys in the College. In making a comment on that point I should be guarded in my remarks, because some of my best friends are European boys who have been at Te Aute; but I say this, that some European boys who have been at Te Aute have been of no benefit to the College. Their influence was for the worse rather than for the better. I have one or two boys in my mind—European boys—who did not behave properly, and they taught the Maori boys phrases that they were not used to, although I believe one of these boys was dismissed from the school. Sons of some of our best citizens and settlers would not be sent to Te Aute; they would be sent to Wanganui or some other college. 46. Do you think it is the desire of the Native people that Te Aute should be kept exclusively for the Maori race?—l think decidedly it should. I think the Natives would rather have all their boys in the College by themselves. I know that a great many Maori boys have not been able to go to Te Aute when they wanted to go, on account of the want of room. I know that some applications have had to be put off for a year or two, and that some boys got tired of waiting. Te Aute is the only school of that class that the Native people have, and it seems a pity that European children should be sent to it when they have many schools open to them. 47. You know there are two sets of Crown grants: that the trusts are different?— Yes. 48. Do you think it should all be put into one trust, and that the education should be for the benefit of the Maori people?— Yes. 49. That it should be limited to Native boys?— Yes. 50. On the ground that it is the only secondary Maori school in the colony?—-Yes. 51. And that we have our European colleges and universities in different parts of the colony? —Yes. 52. I suppose you know the reason why Europeans have been admitted : that some of the grants have been for both races?— Yes. There is another thing: I feel satisfied that the Maori language should be taught at Te Aute. Mr. Thornton has been reported to have expressed the opinion that it would be useless, because it would be a dead language in a few years. I am of opinion that it should be done, and that the Maori language be taught in all Maori schools. I think if a boy is taught to despise his own mother-tongue we should not be surprised if he comes to despise his own mother. 53. Mr. Ngata.] Would you go so far as to say they are taught to despise it at Te Aute?—l would not put it in such strong terms; but that is practically the consequence of the position of affairs there. They are allowed one day a week to talk Maori, but even it is only outside school hours. I think it should be taught in school hours, and taught scientifically. I may say that I have been learning the Maori language ever since I left Te Aute, and the more I learn of that language the more I find there is in it. I derive a great deal of pleasure from learning it. Besides, it helps to make a boy love things Maori— the language and literature of his own people— and he becomes interested in the legends and traditions of his own race. 54. The Chairman.] You desire that the traditions of the Maori race should be preserved?— Yes. I think if you take away the racial pride from the Maori heart, and pride in the traditions of his people, you lower his character. 55. In regard to religious education at Te Aute, do you think there is too much time occupied in that?—l do not think so, I think in the time-table there is only about half an hour, or less, given to the explanation of the Scriptures during school hours. Of course, religious instruction is also imparted by means of the chapel and the daily school services. It is mostly taught in that way. 56. Does what you have said about the training of boys at Te Aute in manual and industrial education apply with equal force to girls at Hukarere?—No, I do not think so. It is domestic education they should go in for there. 57. Have you been at the Hukarere School?— Yes. 58. There is more training in industrial and manual subjects than at Te Aute? They are taught to wash, sew, &c, and to become useful in their own homes? —Yes. 59. Mr. Hogg.] What is the usual term spent at Te Aute? —It depends on the standard a boy is in when he goes there. About five years, I should say. 60. On the day set apart for teaching the Maori language, are the boys taught to translate English into Maori, and Maori into English?—No; they are allowed to talk Maori. 61. Do you not think it would be a great advantage if they were taught to write both languages and to translate from one to the other?— Yes, it would. 62. Does the teaching of Latin help them, in their English?— Decidedly. 63. When they leave school are they generally able to write well and fluently in the English language?— Yes, the boys of the fifth, and sixth classes and the matriculation students . 64. Are they able to dispense with an interpreter in giving evidence or in speaking at public gatherings? —Yes, they are able to speak fairly well. 65. You say there is only a small proportion of them adapted for secondary work?— Yes. 66. Consequently the time devoted to that is practically lost afterwards?— That is my opinion. 67. You are aware that a very large proportion of our European children never enter the University ?—Yes. 68. In the case of the Maori boys dressing expensively, is that not due to the fact that their parents cannot afford to prosecute their further education ?—When I say that living at Te Aute has became expensive, I believe that a good many parents would not be able to afford to send their children there.

10—G, 5,