H. KOHKBE,]

75

[G. -5.

92. Your chief reason would be, 1 suppose, that it is best for their health? —Yes. Naturally he is better fitted for outdoor life than in offices. He has land, and if he does not work the land the land will slip away from him. 93. On the other hand, commercial pursuits and clerical work are not only unsuitable, but are unhealthy for the average Maori?—Y'es, I believe that. 94. Any occupation that means confinement during the greater part of the day is unhealthy for the average Maori? —Yes. 95. At present you think the Te Aute training fits the average Maori boy rather for a clerical or commercial occupation than anything else?— Yes; and it is a great handicap to the boy when he goes into a trade. 96. In fact, it does not go quite far enough to make him quite fit for an up-to-date clerk, inasmuch as shorthand and typewriting, and so on, are not taught?- —That is so; and after he has been a number of years at Te Aute he is too old to be taken on to learn a trade. People will not apprentice him at that age. 97. Mr. Eliott.] You said you would like Te Aute kept as a high school exclusively for Natives? —Yes. 98. Are the Natives, from your knowledge, and observation, increasing or diminishing in numbers?—Of course there has been a general decrease for a good number of years. 99. My object in asking the question is this: if you make the school exclusively a Native school will you be able to keep up the supply of pupils in fifty years, say?— Yes, I think there would be the same number, if not more. lam rather in hopes that the Native race will increase as the result of our endeavours to raise them. 100. You tell us the pupils have more expensive tastes nowadays and cost more: is that not largely due to the fact that the spending-powers of the parents are greater than they were fifteen or twenty years ago ?—I do not think so. It is due to a sort of fashion in the school. 101. Do the boys say " My parents can afford it, and I will have tailor-made clothes "I —That may be partly the reason, but it is due more to the fashion at the College. 102. You know what " ragging " is in the English public schools, and in the army and navy, and so on—that a boy is punished by his fellows for not keeping up with them: is there anything of that sort at Te Aute? —Of course this fashion came in vogue after I left. No doubt a boy who did not dress well would feel his position somewhat. Mr. Ellison: I wish to make a slight amendment in the statement I made the other day before the Commission. It might be understood by the Natives and the public generally from that statement that the gift of the land for this College was a gift of the Natives of Hawke's Bay. This was not the case. The gift was solely the gift of the Natives around Te Aute. What I meant to say was that the benefits accruing from the free education at the College should be extended to all parts of the Ahuriri district. I would also like to refer to the evidence of Mr. G. P. Donnelly, who gave the names of certain friendly Natives who had taken part in the fighting during the war. If Mr. Donnelly was going to name any he should have named the whole of them. There was Puhara, who was one of the captains in those days, and a most active fighter. The other prominent chiefs were Hapuku, Moananui, Pareiha, and Kopu Parapara. With regard to Kohere's statement that a great deal of the laziness on the part of the College boys was owing to the amount of education taught in the school, I would like to say I do not quite agree with him, because I find that young Maoris at a certain age generally get lazy; and I think it is the same with European boys. Before the Commission closed its Napier sittings, the Chairman intimated that he had received from Mr. J. B. Fielder, one of the Te Aute College trustees, a statement of the insurances on Te Aute and Hukarere schools and other property, for inclusion in the proceedings of the Commission [Exhibit No. 40].

Wellington, Thursday, 31 st May, 1906. James Henry Pope examined. 1. The Chairman.] You are the ex-Inspector of Government Native Schools?— Yes. 2. From what date to what date did you hold that position?— From the beginning of 1880 to the end of 1903—a period of twenty-four years. 3. Latterly you had an Assistant-Inspector?—Yes, Mr. Bird. 4. It was part of your duty to inspect the Te Aute School?— Yes. 5. Will you state generally what system of education was in vogue when you first went there as Inspector, and say whether that system has since been changed; and suggest any changes that seem to you desirable? —The system in vogue when I went first to Te Aute was what may be called the English grammar-school system. But it was gradually getting diluted. The new matter that was being poured into it, so to speak, was the result of the necessities that made themselves manifest as time went on. These necessities arose from the differences between Maoris and Europeans —the differences between the problems of educating young Maoris and that of educating young Europeans. These, of course, very largely depended on the ways of life of the children of the two races. The whole process from beginning to end was the gradual elimination of things that seemed to the authorities of the school —and to myself among them —unnecessary or unsuitable for the education of young Maoris. It is very hard indeed to dig into such a big business all at once. One hardly knows where to find a suitable starting point; but, generally, I may say that an important part of what was being done there was a groping for light. Mr. Thornton and the other masters had already done and were doing good work, as good as could possibly be expected from men who, from the nature of things, were in the main ignorant of the task that was going