a.—s.

94

[W. W. BIRD.

hand, you were told that this was part of an organized scheme of instruction in domestic economy, and that the instruction was not merely menial work, but organized directly towards a definite end, and was being taken up by your child in common with the other members of the class, and was being taught by a skilled teacher, I think you and most parents would say, " That is all right; that is what I want my child to learn." I will quote here from a letter addressed by a Maori to the Premier in 1898: "We have seen a report of your speech in the newspapers in which you recommend and advocate that carpentry, &c, should be taught in the Maori schools in this Island. Well, we earnestly trust that you will give effect to such and have our children taught carpentry, so that they may understand how to ' carpenter.' " 117. Was that letter written by him on his. own motion?— Yes. I may say there is a Nativeschool worksnop at that place to-day in which the boys are learning carpentry. Last year, in visiting the various Native schools, I received applications on the ground from the Chairmen, who are generally the leading men of the place, for the establishment of workshops. At five places not only did they ask for the establishment of a workshop, but they agreed to put up the workshop themselves, and they did it I should just like in this connection to quote a letter from the teacher of the Native school at one of these places. The understanding I made with the Maori was that the Government should provide a teacher and the tools, and I asked him in return that he should provide the workshop. "All the stuff for our 'shop ' has been prepared out of totara trees in the bush by the boys and friends, and the erection of the shop was useful in teaching the boys the use of tools and the planning of buildings." I should like to emphasize the fact that last year alone there were five workshops established on what you might call the co-operative principle. I may say it is a good thing to get the Maori to help himself. He will feel far more interest in a thing in which he has had a share than in a thing which is given to him entirely. They recognise this is their workshop, and that they have a perfect right to go there themselves to receive instruction. Now, in that particular place—it is an isolated district near Taupo—they have seen the benefits arising from the instruction given, and the Department has before it now an application from the leading Maori there to establish a general technical college for the use of all the boys in that district. lam to discuss that question on the ground when Igo there next month. Then, not only that, but the boys themselves ask for this work, and I have here applications from boys who are now attending Te Aute College—one for admission into the Lincoln Agricultural College—to get agricultural instruction, and one for two boys now at Te Aute for admission as students to one of the Government experimental farms. I can assure the Commission that in every district where the Maoris realise that a workshop can be put up, and will be of benefit to them —in districts such as those connected with the timber trade, especially in the far north and near Taupo, near the Taupo Totara Timber Company's place—they are willing to put their hands in their own pockets. In one place they went for two days to dig on the gumfields to get the money necessary to put up the workshop. Although yearly many boys qualify for admission to the higher schools, not every boy wishes to prosecute his studies at the higher school. If every boy wished to go to St, Stephen's or Te Aute we could not meet the demand. Year by year the number is growing. We offer at St. Stephen's thirty places and at Te Aute ten places, making a total of forty. Well, last year I suppose there were about two hundred boys qualified for admission to these schools —that is to say, there were last year two hundred boys who had a right by the regulations to get admission to St. Stephen's or Te Aute. Those boys who do not wish to go to St. Stephen's or Te Aute may, if they are so inclined and if their teachers or parents can find masters for them, become apprenticed to masters who are willing' to take boys to learn the trades which the Department has considered advisable for Maori boys to learn. I think it was stated that the idea of this scheme was to fit boys for town life so that they might follow their trades in the towns. That is not correct. The idea was that they should learn only such trades as they might use on their return to the settlement. That is the whole idea of Maori education—to fit them for life amongst Maoris. And I think I may say this with confidence, that if we get' a boy apprenticed, and he learns his trade and afterwards pursues it in a centre such as Wellington or Auckland, from our point of view we could consider him a failure. 118. Why?— Because he is lost to the Maori race. We want to i-rain that boy to be of service to his own people, and not to train him as a unit to live amongst pakehas. In this scheme of apprenticeship we were assisted in the first place by the authorities of St. Stephen's, who, indeed, wrote saying that they wished to introduce the teaching of trades into St. Stephen^. 119. Then, do I understand you do not want to encourage Maori boys to enter into any employment away from their own people?— Personally, I should discourage it. 120. Why?— Because if you take the best Maoris away from their kaingas and put them into the towns, these boys are practically lost to the Maori race, You do not want to train the individual at the expense of the race. What we want to secure is the greatest good for the greatest number. We want to get these boys to show on their return to the Maori settlements the higher ideals of living. If that boy never goes back the special training he has received as a Maori boy has, I consider, failed to achieve its object. He is no better than a pakeha. That is the whole idea I think that underlies the scheme. 121. I understand you are educating Maori boys and Maori girls for the Maori people only, and not to mingle with Europeans and compete with Europeans in trades and commerce? —That is my opinion. I may say that these were the principles approved by the late Hon. Mr. Rolleston when Minister of Education in drawing up the conditions under which Maoris should be admitted into these secondary institutions such as Hukarere, and so intent was he on making them go back that he arranged that they should leave these secondary schools, the boys at fifteen years of age and the girls at sixteen, and go back to their people. As to the Maori girls, you cannot apprentice a girl to a trade, and the only openings we could find for Maori girls are, first, as assistant teachers in our Native schools, and. second, as nurses The Department. T may say, has consistently