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;..;. 161, Has. there been any explanation of the sickness?— The Maoris give their explanation. They say football caused it. 162,. Mr. Lee.] Do you mind telling us from your knowledge what becomes of the two hundred boys who qualify in Standard VI —how many of them really go to Te Aute and St. Stephen's?— We provide annually thirty places at St. Stephen's and ten at Te Aute. 163. Is the accommodation at Te Aute and St. Stephen's sufficient for all who wish to go there? —No; we have more candidates than-we have places for. 164. Is it not desirable that the State should provide accommodation for all who wish to take up secondary work: is the present system not unfair to those who cannot get in ?—The way in which we get over the difficulty is to make a better selection. We select the most promising boys. 165. Do you think the selection that is made is fair to those who are rejected?—l do not suppose they would regard it as fair, but it is done as impartially as possible. 166. Do you, think the remainder of the two hundred who do not go turn out satisfactorily? —I think, on the whole, they do. 167. Do they carry with them a fair knowledge of English?-—Yes. Of course, a Maori generally knows more English than you give him credit for. 168. Mr. Eliott.] You told us about the workshops at the village schools: are the teachers there the instructors?— Yes, the teachers who are able to give instruction in woodwork. Some of our teachers are well qualified to do that. 169. So you do not employ a separate instructor? —No. The instruction in woodwork in village schools occupies four hours per week. 170. From your knowledge of the boys at Te Aute,. is it held out to them that they must do as the other boys do? —I do not think so, but they do it by imitation. 171. They imitate a Maori boy whose parents can afford to dress him?— Yes. The other boys will write to their parents and ask for the same thing, and Maori parents are very indulgent. 172. They are. not encouraged in this by the teaching staff?— No. 173. I would like to have your opinion as to whether Te Aute should be kept exclusively for Maoris ?—I would say Yes. I would exclude European boys. 174. The Chairman.] With regard to athletics, have you had any complaints made to you by the parents of the boys about any excess of athletics?—-Never. I may say I do not think every Maori boy is strong enough in physique to play football. 175. Do you think that before a boy is allowed to play a game like football he should have the sanction of those who are able to judge as to whether he can stand the strain ?—I think so very strongly. I think he ought to be medically examined. 176. I take it your opinion is that there is no excess at all in regard to the time occupied at athletics ?—That is so. 177. Now, in your travels round Hawke's Bay in connection with this school, have you ever heard anybody suggest any maladministration on the part of the trustees in their dealings with the property ?—Never. 178. Have you heard public opinion expressed on the other side, as to the reasonableness of the .action of the trustees in retaining Archdeacon Williams on the property and giving him a lease?— 1 have never heard any opinion expressed one way or the other. 179. Mr. Ngata.] How long have the nursing scholarships been in existence?— Since 1898. 180. Does the Department assist European girls too?— No. It is a scholarship for Maori girls for a special purpose. It has been extended since 1901, and put on a more thorough footing. 181. The special object being that certain girls amongst the Maori people should be trained adequately in proper institutions to do nursing-work amongst their own people?— Yes. I may say Mr. Pope was the author of the movement as far back as 1898. 182. Do you know anything about the initiation of the University Scholarships?— There are six University Scholarships offered by the Government—three in medicine, three in general subjects. One medical scholarship is being held now at the Otago University. The other two are waiting for Maori boys sufficiently qualified to come forward and claim them. Two scholarships are now beingheld in law by young Maoris, 183. I understand these scholarships are also given for a special object?— Yes; I think that is understood. Of course, we have no bond. 184. But there is a somewhat similar understanding as in the case of nursing scholarships?— Yes. 185. The Department, I think, makes a point of the medical scholarship, but does not attach the same importance to the legal training? —That is so. We were convinced by the success of one who had a legal training, and then the scheme was extended to include law. 186. The Chairman.] To your knowledge have the boys who have attended Te Aute College received material benefit, and have the Maori people as a whole received material benefit from th"t institution? —I should say Yes, decidedly. 187. What you say also is that that benefit is capable of improvement by an alteration in the system—by the introduction of manual and technical instruction, and making that instruction a more prominent feature of the school? —Y T es. 188. That is practically the only thing the Department is urging for?— That is so. 189. In your discussions with Mr. Thornton in regard to this subject, have you not found him quite willing at all times to fall in with the Department, and to comply with the wishes of the Department as far as possible?—Of course, Mr. Thornton has looked upon it rather from a conservative point of view. He has spent many years and much labour in bringing the school to its present position, and he still clings closely to his scheme. 190. That is to say, he does not want his scheme to be altogether obliterated; but at the same