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H. B. KIBK

and if we take the more intelligent of these Natives away—if we are constantly taking them away and training them to earn their own living amongst the Europeans, we take from the race its best potential leadership, and we leave the leadeiship and stimulus to the less well endowed and the less well-trained mentally and, often, morally. It is a thing we should not do with any other stock whatever, because we not only take away their mental and moral influence from their race, but we take them away as men who will help to propogate their race. We take them away as Maoris; we take away the influence of the parents, and also the influence of the next generation, which should be important to the Maoris. It seems to me that the policy pursued in the early days of Maori secondary schools was to educate a number of Maoris as Europeans. W"e now see that that was not the right idea to take. 10. What alterations do you suggest in the methods at Te Aute and other secondary Maori schools?—So far as scholarship methods are concerned? 11. Educational methods generally? —I know that I have stated a different view in some of my earlier reports on Te Aute—that there should be a matriculation class at Te Aute. I think so still; but I would now have the matriculation class or any class doing matriculation work, limited in point of membership to those few Maoris whom it was decided should be educated as far as possible on European lines. 12. To be selected? —Yes. I think the selectors should be the managers cf the school so far as dealing with their own scholars is concerned, and it should rest with the Education Department so far as it deals with its own scholars; and the Education Department should have as advisers in selecting the students for the particular class of education the opinion not only of its Inspectors, but also the teachers of the village schools, who knew any particular boy and what his habits and disposition were. When I left the Education Department I think it was the view of all of vs —that we should like to see much more instruction given in manual work. 13. What is your opinion about the two races being taught conjointly?—So far as the village schools are concerned, I think it works well where the Maori is in a majority. I think where the white children are in a majority—unless it be an overwhelming majority—it does not work well. If there are only a few Maoris in a class of European boys—if the boys are mainly Europeans—the Maori boys get great advantages in hearing English spoken constantly, and they learn the English language in a way they could not otherwise learn it. But if the school is rather more Maori than white, or if it is rather more white than Maori, jealously nearly always arises. The classes, moreover, are not easy to work. The course of teaching in such a school becomes difficult for this reason: that the Maori children of necessity need special attention and explanations which the European children do not need, and that leads to the parents of the European children holding that their children are neglected. But where, on the other hand, we have the Maoris in a marked ascendency :n point of numbers, the results are good, so far as my experience goes. At Te Aute there are some few Europeans. On what footing they are there Ido not know; but I always hold that so long as the Europeans in such a school are of a good stamp they do a great deal of good there. 14. You think it would be well to retain Te Aute as a secondary school for Maoris, with a strong industrial side in it?-—I think Te Aute should be retained as a secondary school for the Maoris. 15. Exclusively for the Maoris? —No. I have no means of knowing on what footing the Europeans are there. 16. Primarily for Maoris? —Yes; the Maoris should certainly preponderate in numbers. 17. With a strong industrial side? —Yes, with a very strong industrial side. 18. Should practical farming, in your opinion, be taught at Te Aute?—Yes, so long as it is on strictly limited lines. I think that to teach a Maori boy to farm as a boy would be taught at Lincoln College would be a very great mistake, because he would go back to his village to entirely different conditions. With respect to industrial training of Maoris, I think we should endeavour to make the Maori a handy-man as far as possible. I. know it may be. said that it would tend to make him a " jack of all trades and master of none," but I think that is perhaps what is wanted of the Maori at present. In going back to his people he has to go back to very primitive conditions, he has to work with simple appliances, and his habits are such that if he had modern appliances they would frequently be neglected. We ought to teach him to use simple tools—to use them effectively, and give him such a general idea of farming that he can apply his knowledge to his own circumstances. 19. What you would call, I suppose, a good practical training?— Yes. - 20. Not too fanciful?— Certainly not fanciful. All one's views on Maori education, it seems to me — a ll m y views, and probably the views of anybody who is brought face to face with this question —are strongly affected by the fact that the Maori at present is held back by the communism of his people, and we must endeavour to send the boys back to their people so trained that they will be able to make some headway against the communistic spirit. At present, if a young Maori goes back to his people and works industriously and raises a good crop, his friends will help him to eat it. Ido not mean that education alone can cure that, but I think we should in the meantime endeavour to lessen the evil part of it, and perhaps legislation might assist in removing this evil. 21. Mr. Ngata.] You want to encourage other ideas?-—Yes. 22. The Chairman.] I suppose you know the Hukarere Girls' School? —Yes. 23. Do your opinions with respect to Te Aute apply, with equal force to Hukarere as regards the teaching of household duties, &c, to the girls?— Yes; mutatis mutandis, my views with respect to Te Aute apply to Hukarere. 24. Nursing?— Yes; at any rate, the simpler means to be taken in case of sickness.