G.—s.

110

[P. WALLIS.

54. What have you to say in regard to the question of industrial training at this school: have the trustees taken that matter into consideration ?—We have not thought that very much was required. We have at present a carpenter's shop, in which from forty to fifty boys receive lessons in carpentry—about an hour's lesson twice a week. They make cabinets, writing-tables, and other articles, and they have themselves built several of our school buildings. That is perhaps the best proof of the reality of the training. For example, they built the cricket pavilion, laboratory, two class-rooms, music-room, drying-room, and other buildings, which you will see when you visit Wanganui. We have thought that is the best thing we could do with such boys as we have and in such circumstances. 55. Mr. Hogg.] Do you think that the original object of the trust has been carried out ?—Yes, absolutely. And I think that has been the opinion of Parliament, I might refer the Commission to the debate in the year 1869, when Sir Julius Vogel brought forward a motion condemning the conduct of the school, and it was thrown out by the House of Representatives. In 1879 Mr. Ballance brought forward a new scheme which was accepted by the House of Representatives, but was discharged from the Order Paper of the Legislative Council, we are informed, on Mr. Ballance's own initiative. Since then nothing more has been done, so we account that the State is with us in thinking we are using the grant aright. 56. In this deed it is specified the endowment is intended for the education of the children of our subjects of all races, and of the children of other poor and destitute persons being inhabitants of the islands of the Pacific Ocean : do you think the children of poor and destitute persons have received ample instruction from the funds derived from the grant?—l hardly know what "other," in the last clause, means. That has always puzzled us. It does not appear in the first line. We have at present one Fijian in the school, but he is the only person we have from outside New Zealand. 57. It says, " being inhabitants of islands in the Pacific Ocean " : does not that include New Zealand and the islands adjacent to it?—We have been doubtful whether it does or does not. It is not clear. I always thought that the first line, " for the education of our subjects of all races," referred chiefly to New Zealand, and that the following words were meant to apply to inhabitants of Melanesia and Polynesia. However, waiving that point, I think that inasmuch as the fee for tuition is only £4 per term, and that that is reduced in the case of able boys, w-e are doing a great deal for the poor. I might mention that we have let a large portion of our land —an acres or two —at a nominal rent for a district high school. I consider that £4 per term is not a fee that only rich people can pay. 58. What do you get for the high-school land?—A merely nominal rent—perhaps £1 Or Is. a year. 59. Further on in the grant reference is made to religious education and industrial training: do you think the small amount of time devoted to industrial training is sufficient to meet the requirements of the grant?—l think that is the best thing that can be done under the circumstances by such a school as ours. 60. You see, there is a sum of about £3,000 a year paid in salaries, of which amount only £60 is paid for industrial training?— Yes, industrial training is not one of the chief features of the school. We admit that at once. We are quite ready to consider the question of more industrial work if it is required. 61. Mr. Lee,] Do you know whether any boys not of European origin have been refused admission to the school? —I am quite certain there has not been such a case. At present we have one Maori and five half-castes, and one Fijian. In 1898 we had two Maoris (one receiving free education) and several half-castes. 62. Do you think that the teaching of carpentry or woodwork is sufficient industrial or technical training?—l think so. There is a technical school over the road at Wanganui. We have to consider what will best meet the needs of the inhabitants of Wanganui and New Zealand generally, and it seems to us that is the best thing we can do for them. Of course, we could have them trained in farming, but we think that instruction is best supplied at Lincoln College and elsewhere. 63. Do any of the boys attending the College attend the classses in the Technical School?— Some of the day boys may. I have no information about that. 64. The Chairman.] Section 85 of the Education Act reads: "85. No pupil shall, after the passing of this Act, be admitted to a secondary school until he has obtained a certificate of competency in the subjects of Standard V, or a higher standard, of the public-school syllabus: Provided that pupils that have not obtained such a certificate may be admitted to a lower department of such secondary school if they are taught in a separate'building or class-room, and if it can be shown to the satisfaction of the Minister that no part of the actual cost of their instruction is met out of the endowments of the secondary school." Would the trustees object to an entrance test before admission to the school? —The trustees have considered the matter, and I think the majority are in favour of such an entrance examination; but the headmaster and the second master are of opinion that it is not a wise thing that we should lose the opportunity of educating many boys who are the better for being educated. 65. Mr. Lee.] Is the curriculum of the school planned or directed by the trustees or by the headmaster ?—By the headmaster, subject to the trustees. The trustees have from time to time obtained outside examiners to report to them about the education. For example, we had Mr. Gammell from Otago a little wdiile ago. We have had also Professor Brown, of Victoria College, and the Rev. J. L. Dove, formerly a master'of Haileybury, and Mr. Rowe, of Palmerston North. We have tried to give effect to the recommendations in their reports. 66. The trustees made these appointments? —Yes, and the examiners have reported privately to the trustees.