G.—s.

114

[W. H. QUICK.

think that a man like Sir George Grey or Bishop Selwyn would not contemplate keeping the minimum down to simple teaching of reading and writing the English language. I believe it was contemplated giving industrial training then, because it was almost necessary for a young fellow to learn the use of tools, &c. You could not get apprenticed then. There was no technical school. 102. Apparently only £60 a year is expended on carpentry out of nearly £3,000 paid in salaries, &c. ?—Not more than half of this comes out of the endowment. 103. Do you think, that is adequate for the industrial side of the school?— The adequacy is what the demand for it is. The question is, what would one suggest? It is adequate for the boys who want to learn carpentering. The boys are not made to learn it. If they want to learn it they can learn it, I think the adequacy must be according to the demand. 104. Have the trustees never-considered whether any other kind of technical education besides carpentry or woodwork is required—No; in fact, that has been a difficulty in regard to all schools. 105. Mr. Lee.] Do you know whether all the land facing Victoria Avenue is leased?— No. I think there are some gaps at the top near St. John's Hill. 106. Do you know whether the leases of that trust property have long to run ?—They have only lately been on the market —that is, the residential leases. 107. The Do the trustees keep a minute-book?— Yes, and we are willing to produce it if it is asked for. 108. Are the trustees desirous of putting up a new building if it can be managed?— The present building has lately been improved. We have laid out between £600 and £700 upon it. We have put so much money into the building that we have no intention of rebuilding for some years— until it is necessary. 109. Is not the term " industrial training " nearest met by the definition of manual and technical instruction in Part V of " The Education Act, 1904," section 169?— Manual instruction in secondary schools in that section sounds very like it. I may say that we have one master who teaches carpentry. If there was a demand for other subjects perhaps we might be able to do something in order to meet the demand. Carpentry seems to be the favourite subject wherever you go. 110. Is there any reason why part of the funds of the school should not be devoted to the education of girls ?—The reason for that is a question of pounds, shillings, and pence for a new building. We should like to have double our income and do double our work. There is a girls' high school close by, and a very popular school, I understand, it is. 111. Do you think the terms of the trust exclude girls?—l think girls are British, subjects as well as boys; but you must cut your clothes according to the measure of your cloth. 112. Mr. Ngata.] I find that, exclusive of clothing and travelling-expenses, it costs a boarder £60 a year? —Quite that, T should think. 113. Does not that exclude a great many boys who would otherwise come under the terms of this trust —I mean the question of expense?— The school could not be carried on otherwise. Those are boarding fees. They are not education fees. 114. The boarding is £46 and the fees £12—roughly, £60 a year?— The endowment, without the fees, would not permit of anything much being done. The boys going to Wellington College pay about the same amount. 115. Have the trustees never thought of running the boarding-school?— The trustees could not do it nearly as well as the masters. 116. The boarding-expenses at Te Aute cost about £25 a year, and that comes directly out of the trust fund?—l expect the boarding is rather different, is it not? 117. I suppose the boarding at Wanganui College would be classed as superior?—l should think so. 118. There is no actual discouragement to boys of a certain class?— Not the slightest. 119. But there are barriers nearly as effectual—the question of expense?— There is nothing to prevent a parent sending his boy to lodge elsewhere. It is assumed by us that the boarding fees run parallel with the fees of nearly every secondary school in the colony. 120. On the face of it the child of poor parents would have no chance at all at Wanganui College?— Unless he had a scholarship, or was a day boy. 121. Maori boys and boys from Melanesia would not have much chance unless they were day boys ? —There are nearly always one or two Maori boys there. 122. Mr. Eliott.] How did this school become a secondary school?—I think it always has been a secondary school. 123. It is clear that the terms of the grant do not contemplate it being a secondary school?—I do not think it is clear, because the words in the Ordinance are used with regard to every school. George Hogben further examined. 124. The Chairman.] I understand you wish to make a further statement to the Commission? —Yes, with respect to the cost of boarding in secondary schools. I was a master in a secondary school in England some years ago, and the cost of boarding the boys was within a fraction of a penny of 13s. 4d. per head per week. That included the proportion of the payment to the servants, and the proportion of the board of the masters, who were retained to supervise the establishment. I have had some experience of the cost of boarding boys in New Zealand, and I have come to the conclusion —that was some years ago —that the cost of boarding boys in this colony is 14s. 2d. per head per week —that is, in the case of secondary schools. My experience has been this: that until you get twenty boys in the boarding-school you can scarcely make both ends meet. When you get to thirty you begin to get a definite profit. When you get up to sixty— my own opinion is that it will cost something like 15s. a week at the present time, but it may cost a little more in some cases. Ido not think it is possible to board boys, even with a fair number of them, at less than £30 a year. It would be rather over that. In my opinion the master should be entirely free from the care or charge of boarders so far as relates to any financial arrangements, but he should have a general supervision on behalf of the governors.