G.—B.

126

Fh. g. field.

trustees have no funds properly available for road-formation, and that any money spent in this way means so much less available for education. Yet the Wanganui Corporation has not only put this construction on the Act, but it has insisted on the trustees also providing sewerage, &c. From 1859 to 1870 I was Clerk and Engineer to the old Town Board, and during that time the bulk of the rates derived from the estate was expended in works for its benefit. The drains in the estate were cleared out and deepened, and further cross-drains dug, to enable the rest of the property to be let. Since the Board developed into a Corporation nothing of this kind has been done; but the work has been thrown on the trustees and tenants, to the detriment of the endowment and lessening of the rateable value. In the same way, when roads bounding the estate were constructed, half the cost was debited to the estate and the other half to the properties on the other side of the roads. It has always seemed to me that the Corporation" has always taken all it could from the estate, and done as little as possible for its benefit. I have always felt sure that if a fair arrangement had been made, whereby the Corporation had assisted the trustees in opening up the estate, it could have greatly benefited both the trust and the Corporation. Many other streets of the town were enclosed for years and used as grazing-land by owners of adjacent properties; but in all cases where these have been reopened, the Corporation has undertaken the formation, and it seems to me that this course was more imperative in the case of an estate, granted as an educational endowment, whicii would greatly benefit the town. Another objection which has been raised is that so few Maoris attend it. I have already mentioned the circumstances under which Maori attendance ceased; but besides this, till of late years, the Maoris had evinced no desire for education such as is given at the Collegiate School. They seem to prefer the inferior education obtainable at schools close to their own homes. Thus the Putiki Maoris send their children to the mission school; the Wangaehu ones to the Wangaehu School, and the Aramoho ones to the Aramoho School. The up-river Maoris send their children to the school at Raorikia, Koriniti, Hiruharama, and Pipiriki; and, so far as I have heard, the trustees have never raised any objection to a pupil of any of the above schools, who was intelligent and industrious enough to win a scholarship, being admitted to their school. Something. I notice, was said at Wellington about the endowment being used for boys only. For very many years there has been a Girls' High School in town, and I think it is some fifteen years since the Girls' College was started, and I do not see that any good could be gained by starting another on the estate in opposition to existing ones. Some people talk as if the school had been intended as an industrial one for paupers and criminals; but this not only was not the idea of the founders of the school, but such an institution would have been hotly opposed by the then inhabitants of Wanganui. I think Mr. Hogben underestimated the cost of secondary education. My fourth son, the present member for Otaki, won the Provincial Scholarship of £40 a year, tenable for three years at the Wellington College, and just as the term was expiring, he won the Rhodes Scholarship of the same amount, and tenable for an equal term, yet he cost me fully £30 a year while he was at the College. I think it was Mr. Ngata who spoke of the cost of sending a Maori boy to the school, and this would apply still more strongly to Pacific-islanders. Apart from the fact that there is the Norfolk Island School available for them, " poor and destitute " islanders could not send their children to New Zealand; and even if they could get them a free passage, they would send theih to a Maori school at Auckland, not to the Wanganui one. Yet this absurd clause is in the grants for the Porirua, Papawai, and Kaikokiri endowments. It seems to me that it was meant at first for Auckland schools, and got copied into the grants for the others through sheer carelessness. 77. Are these statements substanially true and accurate, to the best of your knowledge and belief and memory?— Yes. 78. Is there anything you wish to add to them?— No. 79. Have you given any evidence before a parliamentary Committee on this subject?— Not that lam aware of. Ido not recollect having done so. 80. Do you not remember giving evidence before a Select Committee of the House of Representatives in 1879, as contained in J.-4, being the report of a Select Committee re the Wanganui Endowed School Bill I —l must say Ido not recollect it. I might explain that my memory of longago events is much better than my memory of more recent events. 81. Do you remember that one of the prominent questions during that inquiry was whether the Bishop proposed to exclude from the school all children who did not belong to the Church of England?— No. 82. Do you remember Sir George Grey being asked what his intention was when he gave the grant?—l do not remember that. I do not remember anything about that Committee cf the House. I may say I never heard of the Bishop wanting to exclude any one in that way. As I viewed the matter the mere fact of this endowment being given to the Bishop made it denominational, just in the same way as the endowments given to the P'-esb) terians and Wesleyans made them denominational; and any boy who went to that school would be taught on Church of England lines, although he might have been brought up as a Wesleyan or Presbyterian or Romanist. So far it would be denominational. 83. Do you remember Mr. Ballance's Bill of 1879?— I recollect there was some talk about it. 84. Do you not remember going to Wellington and being examined on that Bill?— No. I may have been in Wellington, and been examined about it. 85. I suppose you will not dispute what took place?—Oh, no, if the facts are on record. 86. I suppose you know that Sir George Grey was in the House when the Bryce Bill of 1876 and the Ballance Bill of 1879 were before the House, and that he spoke on the question?— Yes, I remember that. I used to see the reports in the newspapers.