E. N. LIPFITON.I

135

G.—s.

164. Are you using it in any way or improving it? —I graze it. lam not improving it, 165. There are 10 acres let to Mr. E. F. Liffiton at £15 10s.: is that your lease? —No, my son's. It was let by public tender, and that was the highest tender. 166. Are all the lands let in that way? —Either by public tender or by auction with very few exceptions. A lease may have some time to run and the tenant applies for a further extension, and says he is prepared to give more rent. The trustees go into each case and decide it on its merits. 167. Practically, you say no money has been spent on drainage?—We only keep open the drains that are on the estate. 168. Have you obtained any report from an engineer as to the practicability of draining that land, or any estimate of the cost of doing such a work?— No. The trouble is, with the borough as well as with the trustees, that it is rather ah undertaking. There is no special scheme of drainage for that part of the town at all, and it will be a very costly work indeed. 169. But during all these years you have had no scheme of drainage or estimate of cost submitted by any engineer- ?—Not to my knowdedge. 170. When the buildings were erected where were the funds obtained from?—l was requested by the trustees to produce certain- deeds in regard to this matter. A lease was granted to Dr. Harvey, on which he raised a certain sum of money, amounting to £2,800, from the Wellington Trust and Loan Building Society. He raised this money on his own responsibility, trusting to the fees and rents coming in to pay him off. He practically took the whole burden upon himself. He borrowed £1,500 at 8 per cent., and £1,300 at 9 per cent., and when I took office in 1885 £60 7s. 6d. was all that had been paid off this £2,800. 171. Can you tell us when this debt was fully paid off?—ln 1900. 172. Can you tell us how it was money could be raised for buildings in this way, and yet no effort was made apparently to raise money to improve the property?-—That can very easily be explained. The trustees have no power to mortgage this land, but they gave a lease to Dr. Harvey, and Dr. Harvey mortgaged that lease. The money was practically raised on a moral and personal security. 173. Mr. Eliott.] Did the lease cover the whole estate?—No, only the College portion. 174. Mr. Hogg.] Is Dr. Harvey still alive?— No. 175. How much do you obtain annually from the Education Board?—£s from the Board and £10 from the School Committee. 176. Do you obtain rent from any other institutions outside the Education Board? —The Board of Governors of the Girls' High School give us a full rental of £41 for a portion of the estate. This block was put up for tender on a forty-two-year lease in 1903, and the sections were separately valued, and the total rental came to £41. Tenders were advertised and notices were put up on the ground, but only one tender was received from one man for two sections. That shows there was no demand. Afterwards I was in communication with the Chairman of the Board of Governors in reference to a site for a girls' playground and swimming-bath, and the outcome was that the trustees let this land to the Girls' College at the upset rental mentioned. 177. I notice by the original deed you exhibited this morning that a school is to be established here for " the education of the children of our subjects of all races and the children of other poor and destitute persons being inhabitants of islands in the Pacific Ocean," and that on the plan accompanying the deed the reserve is mentioned as being a reserve for an industrial school? —Yes. 178. I should like to ask if, in your opinion, you think the object of the trust has been carried out?—l think it has been carried out as nearly as it possibly could be. 179. Is there any industrial school on that site?— What is your definition of an industrial school? It is difficult to answer your question without such a definition. Carpentering is taught, and a variety of scientific subjects are taught. 180. Have the children of the poor and destitute persons mentioned in the deed received any benefit? —I should say, as fully as the funds would permit of. We have educated free scholars, mostly the children of poor people. I cannot give individual names. Mr. Empson can give you full particulars in regard to this question. 181. Mr. Lee.] You said a certain section was let at the upset price: do the trustees in letting sections always fix on an upset price before putting them into the market?— Yes. We have a valuation made by some valuer in Wanganui, generally Mr. Notman. 182. Mr. Eliott.] In theory you regard this as an industrial school, but in practice it is a school for higher education: you label your books " Industrial School Estate "?—That was done because of the name on the grant, and lam answerable for that. It was done to distinguish the books from other books in the office. 183. You told us that the trustees were registered under the Unclassified Societies Act, and that that did away with the necessity for a power of attorney?—So I am informed. 184. Are you acquainted with the Unclassified Societies Act? —No. 185. Who could tell us about the incorporation of the trustees? —Mr. Quick. The deed of incorporation is here, and I can bring it after lunch. 186. Is any charge made on the trust for travelling-expenses?— Mr. Maclean's actual expenses to Wellington are paid. 187. That would not be necessary if all the trustees resided in Wanganui? —No, but it does not come to a very large sum. 188. You only pay Mr. Maclean's expenses?— That is all. Mr. Beckett goes down, but I, do not see him. 189. What would you put the value of the whole estate at per acre?—We had it valued in 1903 by the Government, and the total valuation was £32,649. 190. Do you not think the College buildings stand on the best part of the estate for revenue purposes? —Yes. The land was not supposed to be of very great value at the time they were put there.