G-.— 5.

162

[T. B. MACLEAN.

84. What I mean, is the benefit sufficiently widely distributed?—l do not know; the wider it is the better pleased I should be. 85. You have a technical school here : does it derive any benefit from that endowment ?—No. 86. Do you not think that school could be very largely improved if it received a substantial subsidy from the trust? —No, Ido not think so. I think the proper people to give it a substantial subsidy are the Government. They give to other places, and why not here ? 87. Was not the object of the endowment to give industrial and technical education of this character ?—lt does not say so. 88. I see it is marked " industrial school "on the deed?—l claim that is a clerical error. The deed simply says, amongst other things, that industrial training is to be given. I claim that to be a clerical error. We are bound entirely by the Crown grant. 89. The Chairman?] In giving evidence before a Select Committee of the House, Sir George Grey said that industrial training was one of the objects?—l am only maintaining that it is not an industrial school according to the Crown grant, but it is a school in which industrial trainingshall be given. 90. Mr. Hogg.] Do you consider that the technical and industrial branch should be neglected ? —No. I think the instruction should be as wide as possible. 91. You would be in favour of giving the boys a commercial training as well as classical?— Yes. 92. Book-keeping is not taught at present?— Not under the prospectus; but I believe Mr. Empson has made arrangements for instruction being given in book-keeping. 93. Would you approve of agricultural science being taught if the funds would permit?— Certainly. 94. Mr. Lee.] Is there any religious test for day-boys on admission? —No. 95. As a matter of fact, do day-boys receive religious instruction in the school?— All the scholars are taught by the chaplain unless they a.re exempted at the request of their parents. 96. That is to say, a Jew could be admitted as a day-boy, and he would be exempted from religious instruction? —Yes; it has happened. 97. Why make a distinction between a day-boy and a boarder?—lt has been considered to be necessary to promote the unity of the school. 98. If the school is open to all creeds in the case of day-boys, why should not the same rule apply to boarders ?—lt has not been so, and so far as I know the trustees have never been asked to make it apply. It is important that the Commission should know what is being done than the reason why it has been done. It is important that the Commission should know the rule that boarders shall attend chapel services. Whether it is a wise rule or not is another question, but it is the practice. 99. Mr. Ngata.] What is your opinion with regard to the trustees running the boarding themselves?—l think it would be preferable if the trustees undertook the boarding. 100. How many quarter-acre sections could the rest of ilie estate be cut into?—l could not say, but there would be a considerable number. 101. It would appear that the cost of opening up these 189 sections—£lB,ooo —would be rather beyond the resources of the trustees? —I am afraid so. 102. But would not the undertaking of that scheme even at that cost help to improve the rest if the property, and enable you to put the rest of the sections on the market much cheaper?— They would be cheaper in so far as you would save the main drain, but not otherwise. There would be only a limited number of sections absorbed by the market. 103. There would not be any diminution in the cost of forming the streets for the rest of the sections? —None whatever. 104. With regard to religious education, are you aware that at the same time this trust was given there were trusts given to other religious bodies? —I have heard so. 105. Have you heard how they have interpreted their trusts? —I have been told that they have sold some of them and utilised the proceeds; but we have no information with respect to that. 106. Would the scheme you are contemplating now for opening this estate have to be submitted to the General Synod? —No; that is within the power of the trustees. 107. The Chairman.] I suppose you admit that legislation of some sort is necessary--for instance, in regard to the borough making arrangements, dedicating roads, &c. ?—T think the Borough Council could do it if they would. 108. Mr. Bryce.] You consider that religious instruction is an essential condition of the grant? -Yes. 109. And your idea is that that can only be carried out by securing the attendance of every scholar in the chapel at least at short intervals? —Yes. 110. If other denominations satisfied you that they can convey certain instruction which they call religious instruction to the scholars whose parents did not desire them to attend the Church of England chapel, would you regard that as religious instruction in the terms of the grant?-—I should consider it would be religious instruction, but not that contemplated in the Crown grant. The trustees would have no power to allow it, because in the constitution of the Church trustees are not to allow any teaching anywhere in the College buildings that is not in accordance with the Prayer-book, the Thirty-nine Articles, and the Ordinal, and it is not likely that such teaching would be in accordance with that. 111. But would you consider that that would be compliance with the grant—that it would be religious instruction as contemplated by the grant—l am asking you as a witness?—lt is a rather difficult question to answer, because I have no knowledge of the legal interpretation of the grant. 112. You said you thought it was necessary that every scholar should be in the chapel at stated intervals? —Yes,