H. C. FIELB.]

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matter straight in the passing of a short Act exempting such endowments. It was not lught, as I conceive, to treat them as ordinary private properties; but the trustees are dearly not responsible for those mistakes. As a member for many years of the Diocesan and General Synods, I more than once expressed the opinion that the estate had better have been placed under the control of local trustees; but the answer was that, as the endowment was for the whole ecclesiastical province, and not a merely local one, the whole area should, as far as practicable, be represented on the trust. In the same way, I said it would be better to keep the accounts of the moneys arising from this endowment and of those arising from, the paying pupils separate from each other; but here again the answer was that salaries of masters and servants, and other expenses of the general management, would have to be divided between the two accounts, and that as the relative numbers of paying and noii-paying pupils varied from year-to year the fair proportion chargeable to each account would constantly fluctuate, and that if any persons wanted to-get at these proportions they could do so by applying to the trustees or to Mr. Liffiton. There was one point respecting the difficulty of letting the swamp part of the estate which was not mentioned—viz., that persons would naturally be unwilling to take as building-sites land whicii the owners had no funds to use for roading and draining, and whicii the Corporation would not road or drain. Alfred Owen Williams examined. 146. The Chairman?] You are a clerk in holy orders, residing at Wanganui?—Yes. 147. What is it you wish to say? —I wish to explain the position in regard to Maihi Rangipo Mete Kingi. When the present Bishop of Wellington arrived in the colony he spoke to me about getting Maori boys into the Wanganui College, and asked if there was anybody I could recommend. I said I could, but that, unfortunately, the boy was at Te Aute. The Bishop wanted to know if we could get that boy from Te Aute in order to give him a better education at Wanganui, I spoke to the boy's people about the matter, and the matter was left in my hands, and eventually the boy was transferred to Wanganui College. It was possibly my fault that any trouble arose about fees. As the Bishop had spoken to me, I naturally thought it was intended the boy should be admitted free, and nothing was said about fees until the boy's parents received an account from Mr. Empson —for £18, I think. 1 then wrote to Mr. Empson stating I was under the impression the boy was to be admitted free. Mr. Empson replied that he had not understood that, but that he would admit him without any fees whatever. The Chairman, having first asked if any other person wished to tender evidence in regard to the Wanganui Collegiate School Trust, and received no response, then announced the proceedings at Wanganui closed.

Wellington, Monday, 18th June, 1906. Hone Heke examined. 1. The Chairman.] You are a member of the House of Representatives?— Yes. 2. I understand you desire to give some evidence on the question of Native educational trusts? Yes. It is only a short statement I desire to make. My experience of Native education has brought me to realise that the old idea of the Church authorities, the Natives, and Sir George Grey does not exist at the present time —namely, that each trust should support a school or college for the education of the children of the donors, or the children of the tribe of the donors. Circumstances have so changed that it is entirely necessary, if any benefit is to be had from the Native trusts set aside for educational purposes, that the revenues of these trusts ought to be pooled together. For instance, on the West Coast there is the Porirua trust, given by the Natives of the Ngatitoa Tribe and the Ngatiraukawa Tribe; there is the Otaki trust, given by the Ngatiraukawa Tribe. If the position of the Wanganui trust was similar to the Otaki and Porirua trusts, I would urge strongly the advisability of centralising and pooling the revenues from these reserves with the funds from the reserve at Motueka of 1,000 acres, which was given by a branch of the Ngatitoa Tribe, so that a strong college could be established where higher education could be taught to Native children somewhat on the lines of that at Te Aute, with the addition of technical education, not in the fine arts, but in industrial pursuits, and, if possible, the creation of a branch of agricultural learning. But, in regard to this agricultural aspect of education, I think it would be better to have that established at one of the colleges—say, at Te Aute—so as to enable the west coast Native trusts set aside for educational purposes to pursue the higher ordinary education, with the addition of industrial training. This pooling would provide the funds to pay for proper masters and proper equipment to carry on the necessary education in the technical branches. As to the locality where the West Coast, college should be erected, that could easily he arranged by calling together the representative Natives belonging to the tribes who gave the lands. I feel sure that the Natives of the different tribes I have mentioned have no strong reasons now to still cling to the old idea of localising their interests. The old jealousies have passed away, and I think there is a greater realisation in the minds of the elders of the necessity of having properly equipped schools for the purpose of giving their children a higher education, and of equipping those children who have not keen intellects with a trade of some kind whicii will be beneficial to them in after-life. I would apply the same remarks to the East Coast Native trusts. In the Wairarapa there are three— Papawai reserve of 400 acres; the Ngamutawa reserve, near Masterton; and the Kaikokirikiri reserve. The college at Clareville, near Kaikokirikiri, now being conducted by the Church of England authorities in the Wairarapa, is not strong enough, and it seems to me to be a waste of money. All these reserves were set aside by a tribe called the Ngatikahungunu, and so were the Te Aute lands, and it is in the interests of these people that the funds of these reserves should be